Budgeting, Getting out of debt & Financial Wellness with Jessica Durbin

 In this podcast we'll go into depth about how to create a budget, How to get out of debt, and simple money patterns along with much more! Our guest in today's episode is financial coach and bookkeeper, Jessica Durbin. Jessica is a busy mother of 3, and a third-generation bookkeeper and tax preparer. Along with that she also has a passion for her financial coaching business, and helping people achieve their goals for reaching financial wellness. Jessica makes customized budgets based on her clients spending habits. She helps her clients plan out how to pay for their daily necessities while still being able to live life to the fullest.

Timestamps to help you better navigate this episode:
(0:00) Intro

(3:10) What is financial wellness? What do you do for your clients?

(11:03) Noticing money patterns

(15:56) How do we start to create a budget?

(23:25) 50/20/30 budgeting rule

(25:08) What is financial coaching?

(28:56) Getting out of debt: Avalanche vs Snowball method

(35:35) Covid's effect on finances

(42:12) Being the "Just enough" person

Check out previous episodes with Jessica:
#5 Client Testimonial - Jessica

Connect with Jessica:
@mrs_jessica_durbin
Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/durbinbookkeeping/
Website: https://www.durbinbookkeeping.com/

FREE Savings Challenge: https://www.durbinbookkeeping.com/savings-challenge/
FREE Personal Financial Wellness Check: https://www.durbinbookkeeping.com/personal-financial-wellness-check/
FREE 2-Part Virtual Financial Wellness Workshop: https://mailchi.mp/7747e2959a9e/2-part-workshop

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 3:10 What is financial wellness? What do you do for your clients?
• 11:03 Noticing money patterns
• 15:56 How do we start to create a budget?
• 23:25 50/20/30 budgeting rule
• 25:08 What is financial coaching?
• 28:56 Getting out of debt: Avalanche vs Snowball method
• 35:35 Covid's affect on finances
• 42:12 Being the "Just enough" person

Transcript

Lunden Souza: [00:00:00] Welcome to Self Love and Sweat The podcast, the place where you'll get inspired to live your life unapologetically, embrace your perfect imperfections, break down barriers and do what sets your soul on fire. I'm your host, Lunden Souza. Hey, friend, it's me. Lunden Souza Online Lifestyle Transformation Coach. I help people all over the world just like you who know they are meant for more. Get their mind right and their body tight and go from crazy busy to crazy happy. And hey, if it's our first time meeting, welcome. So happy to have you. And if you've been with us for a while, it's so great that you're here too. I'm really excited to share this episode of the Self Love and Sweat podcast with you.

Lunden Souza: [00:01:05] Today we have Jessica Durbin with us. And Jessica Durbin started in finances basically when she was in the womb. She's now a financial wellness coach for people who need help creating a budget, diving into their emotions surrounding money or figuring out where their money goes each month. She also helps people create better habits and routines around their finances, and she believes finances connect to everything. Jessica is here to help you figure out how the puzzle pieces of your finances fit together. And she started out thinking she couldn't do it at all, that she couldn't possibly have a thriving business where she could help people and love what she does for a living. But she's definitely making that happen. And she says she always is growing and learning and she has even bigger goals now. Her motto is Balance, consistency and discipline, which leads to financial wellness, which is key to a great lifestyle. Welcome. Jessica Durbin, one of my favorite people on the planet. Not because you're just so amazing at what you do, but because I've experienced it firsthand. I've worked with Jessica now for, I guess, the last three plus years, and it's just been such an experience working with you, learning what financial wellness means, and learning the way that and I always say this, you know, fitness transcends into other areas of your life. And I'm so learning with you that finances transcends into so many other areas of our life as well. So, so excited to have you here today to talk about finances, which I know can be a sticky subject for some people. And if that feels that way for you, don't worry. It felt like that for me, too, and it's very common to feel that way. So tune in.  Jessica makes everything so, so supportive, yet so straightforward, and that's really what I love about you. So before we jump into how to start a budget and plans to get out of debt, which we're going to cover today, tell us more about you and how you got to where you are in this unique position of financial wellness coaching. I think people listening or watching, you know, you can put it together. Financial wellness coaching. Okay, I get it. But how did you develop that for yourself and what exactly do you do for clients like me?

Jessica Durbin: [00:03:14] Yeah, so I didn't start out doing coaching. I started out with taxes because I'm a third generation tax preparer. So my granny and my mom both do this and they kind of taught me the ways, like how it says from the womb. I've been doing this forever, just starting out with like filing papers to learn how to do payroll and so on and so forth. And so for me, I didn't want to do this originally, but it just so happens my brain is just hardwired like this. And I ended up picking it up because I felt like I needed a change in my life.

Jessica Durbin: [00:03:47] And since I already knew how to do everything and it came so naturally to me, and plus like the gratification that I get from helping people figure out their money and where it should be, how they should use it, like in a productive way and get out of debt and stuff like that. It just made me feel like this was the path that I should be on, regardless if I wanted to in the beginning or not. This is where I'm at and I actually really learned to love it because I love helping people and being in money. It is a sticky situation sometimes when you're in debt or when you don't know how to even like use your money in the right way as a tool. So I like helping people from the get go and with my family doing it, it was very easy for me to transition into doing this and doing it self employed. But the difference is I wanted to help people even more than like let's say what my granny or my mom were doing with just giving random advice during people's tax appointments. I was finding people coming to my tax appointments with me. They were like dreading their appointment. Basically, I'm the Grim Reaper about to give them, you know, this is what you owe the man, this is what you need to pay. And it was getting really sad for me to watch people's faces like the color drain, you know? And I was like, how can I help people, like, figure out their life with their finances before they come to see me so that everything is like a happy conversation versus people being sad at their appointments.

Jessica Durbin: [00:05:07] And so I went on to do financial coaching certifications and stuff like that, figuring out how to talk to people about their money because it is still kind of like a taboo thing to talk about. Nobody likes to open up about what they use their money for. They don't like to open up about how much money they have, even though it's not even really relevant anymore. With like crypto coming in and things like that, it's really just a tool and people don't look at it like that. They look at it as like a status symbol. And even nowadays and with my granny, she looks at it like that even in that generation. And so I wanted to get away from that and help my clients to feel more safe, more secure, talking about it, you know, better learning about it than not, I say, and I feel like if they know how to use it, they know what's around their emotions with money. They come to their appointments and they feel so much more open about it. I can have like very straightforward conversations, like you said, like how I do with. You no matter the case, if it's negative-positive talks where it's like you really need to hone in on this and maybe take care of this debt first.

Jessica Durbin: [00:06:11] Like it's just literally straightforward, no gray area with me and it's only to get them in a better place financially for their lifestyle because no one likes to be in debt. And so I tackle my clients the same way with every single person, no matter what they spend their money on. It's all just transactions in my eyes. And so I enjoy doing that the most of all, where I just get people on the right track with their money so that they feel less stressed because that's how everything connects with your body, your mind, your spirit. It can drain someone's spirits really fast when you have zeros in your bank account.

Lunden Souza: [00:06:45] Right? Oh, my God. Yes. You're so. Yes. It really transcends into, like I said, into so many, so many areas. And you really are the like you said, it can be a very sticky, emotional subject for people. And you really are like the roots, the the the logical energy. But you still have that like I give a shit spirit, but I'm not going to judge you like they're all transactions and through your own patterns of discovery of how you want to evolve and what you're doing. You can also help other people spot other patterns when it comes to their money mindset and different things that you coach a lot about and you've taught me a lot about.

Lunden Souza: [00:07:23] And you know, I love how you were like, Okay, yeah, people are coming to me. This is like the scenario that I find myself in Grim Reaper, you know, here's what you owe come tax season. And instead of being like, okay, that's just what I do, and that's just the way that it is, and that's the way that people are going to come in. You're like, Okay, I'm going to flip that. I'm going to reframe it, and I'm going to decide to be there for my clients on a regular basis. And we just had our kind of like half-year appointment where you were telling me, okay, here's where you're at, here's your profits, here's what you should start saving for taxes. I mean, when we are recording this and when you and I had this chat, it was in August and taxes are not until next April. And so it's so cool to be able to have you there knowing like, hey, no, no judgment, super valuable input and being proactive ahead of time of like, okay, what should I be saving to prepare for? So then I don't feel like I'm getting sucker punched or an uppercut every single April, right? Every single time. Just like having that be the only opportunity that you even think about it. So you're helping me and your clients just like being cool, thinking about it on a regular basis, taking the stigma out of it, seeing it for what it is, and setting up systems based on you and which is what I love.

Lunden Souza: [00:08:35] It's kind of like, you know, with what we're talking about today and I want to get into like some tactical. Tactical. What do you like? Tangible takeaways, tactical tactical items that people can take with them today. Can't talk. I'm so excited to have you here. But to, you know, to really be able to go into this space. Yeah, it just it takes time. It is a little sticky. It can be uncomfortable, it can feel a little exposed. But I find that the faster you get into the flow of just kind of owning up to some of the things like you mentioned and I mentioned in your bio, it's like, where does my money go? Kind of what's happening? You really make it customized and you ask and it's like, okay, in this process, in this journey of me helping you get out of debt or budget or whatever, it's like, you get to know me, what is my life like? What do I like to do? What's going to make and help me feel fulfilled? What is without what I mean to say here is it's not just about like, okay, how can you be more and more stingy and hold on to your money and save or say no to more things or not spend your money here, not spend it. It's like, okay, let's just look and see where you're at now and let's make a better plan so that you can have the money to do the things that are actually really important to you.

Lunden Souza: [00:09:56] And you helped me get really clear on what the important things are and what they are not, and what the needs are versus the wants. And even throughout the time of feeling very financially stressed, coming from back from Austria into the States, whatever, even though there were of course moments where it was like, yeah, I had to say no to some things in order to save for the life that I wanted. You always worked with me in a way that I never felt deprived. It was like, okay, I can still do something that's important to me, but I maybe need to choose one important thing, not five this time. And so that's what I love to. And for anyone listening, it's not just cookie cutter budgeting or cookie cutter like pay this, divide it by four if you want to pay it in four months, you know, it's really like, okay, well, what's going to help you feel fulfilled? And like, you're living life and you're getting the most out of your your experiences while getting out of debt, while budgeting, while doing a lot of these practices. And so, yeah, I just I'm very thankful for that. And you have a very good, good skill for that. Did you learn that? Is this something that you do with every client where you're kind of like, okay, what's important to you? What's not? Yeah, that's super cool. I love that you do that.

Jessica Durbin: [00:11:03] Yeah. So. I notice patterns. It's just how my brain works. So in anything I do not just like finances and taxes and stuff like that. Like I just notice patterns really easily. And so for me, I am on like a, I mean, I'm very professional, but I'm also very like friendly with my clients where I want them to like see me, not like a friend necessarily, but I want to be there for them and be their support system when it comes to their money. And so it's really important to me that my clients know and like people know that it's not like you don't have to sit there sad every single day because you can't do something that you want to do. You can't go get your Starbucks, you know, because like, let's be honest, a $5 coffee is not going to break the bank. I mean, unless you're at like negative in your bank account, I feel like go ahead and get the coffee. You know, that's not going to be pennies going towards like a debt that you need to pay off really in the end. So like for me, I connect the dots with what my clients like to spend their money on for sure. And then I have like a sort of, I guess, come to Jesus moment, if you will, with my clients when I first meet them and like have them as a client.

Jessica Durbin: [00:12:06] And I just tell them, you know, do you know that you're spending this much in this category? Do you know that you're spending this much in miscellaneous things that you don't really necessarily need, but you just want to spend your money on it? Is there ties that are linked with overspending on clothing or, you know, because when people tend to have shopping addictions and things like that, it's because they are filling a void of some sort. So shopping and receiving something makes them feel good and it makes them feel, you know, these different emotions that they could get somewhere else if they were in a healthy relationship or just the list goes on for why people do the things that they do. And for me, I like my clients to know, like money isn't everything, but money is everything. And money, if you use it the right way, you can do anything you want. The sky is the limit. You just need to use it as a tool. So like if you have debts and stuff like that, let's pick one of those as a priority, which whatever it is in your debt, whatever you have going on, and what is more of a priority paying off this debt that you have, like let's say it's a credit card or something like that, or is it more of a priority to make sure that you go out and have dinner and drinks with your friends like every other night? You know, you kind of have to like give a little bit.

Jessica Durbin: [00:13:19] But also I want you to enjoy your life because you only get one life. So I personally feel like when I meet with a client on a first, first time basis, it is really important to figure out who they are, what they like to do, but also turn it around for them to where they can still splurge a little bit, do some fun things, live a life, and then also just get really down to the nitty gritty and focus on their financial goals. That's one of the number one things that I ask my clients about, because if you have a goal, then it is a little bit more motivating to either save your money or use it in a different way. So yeah, I, I just do it. I don't know, my family like my mom and my granny. I've talked to them about this, you know, their styles and we're all different and, you know, positive and negative ways. And I tend to lean more towards like a softer touch when it comes to finances. Just because that's the world that I live in. And other accountants and other tax payers tend to be very like black and white. They're just very like, This is how it is. If you don't like it, that's it. Like everyone's different then I tend to approach it in a very like soft way. 

Lunden Souza: [00:14:25] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I definitely see that. Like, you definitely lay the line and help with the boundaries and set up and structure and yeah, you're just yeah, you do such a great job in the process and I know you're just, you know, having your third child mama of three. So you definitely have that like mom, I can trust you to guide me in a great way type of feeling when we work together, which I love. One thing that I always think about when thinking about money or I try to think about when thinking about money because that was not my belief before, is something that a mutual friend of ours, Janna, she said to me once, she's like, I see money as an amplifier and I love that she said that. And that's like what you said. You're very good at connecting the dots of what people want to amplify, right? So sometimes they're it's great to have opportunities to say, yeah, money isn't everything, but it's going to amplify the things that I want to experience in life. And yeah, it's really been progress over time, just like a training plan, just like tracking your goals and your progress and things like that. With finances, it really is the same. And that's why I love a lot of the kind of plans and processes and things that you have set up when it comes to budgeting, getting out of debt and things like that.

Lunden Souza: [00:15:36] So I'm just going to go straight to these questions because these are ones I definitely had from the get go. And I know people and people that come to you probably have these questions all the time. So number one, so maybe we have our training plan, we know how to do our training plan. Or if you're watching this video, you're you're in the training plan, you have that plan. But how do we start to create a budget? Because that's going to be customized just like a training plan. So what it would be like the steps to create a budget. How do we start? What are some things that maybe we all need to budget for and how do we know? Yeah, what's a good budget if we're spending too much or not?

Jessica Durbin: [00:16:12] Yeah. So when I first meet with the client, with a coaching client, I set up a Google Drive folder where they have all these spreadsheets that I have in there for them just to start fresh. Because a lot of my clients think that they know how to budget, but they really don't know how to budget. And so it really helps when you have a spreadsheet in your face and like something that I can coach them and train with them on. And I plug in things from bank statements and just kind of do like an outline of what the expenses are in their daily lives and their month from the bank statement and then their income.

Jessica Durbin: [00:16:45] And then we see the difference. So with a budget, you want to make sure that you have goals or like realistic expectations of how much you're going to be spending in certain categories. And this is just like on a personal level, it's not for like a small business. This is just very generic where it's like an everyday person. If they spend $250 a week on groceries, you want to set your budget to a limit that is realistic for what your income is. And that would be like I have columns on this budget that I utilize this spreadsheet and it's actual expenses versus what you actually did. Like your goals are, you know, and so when I go through everything, I total everything up with them and I teach them how to look at their bank statement other than like, Oh, this is what I spent on like last Tuesday. It's like printing everything out, highlighting it, going through it, and really diving deep into what their expenses are and what they spend their money on. And then once they have a realistic goal or like a cap on what they have as far as like miscellaneous spending, groceries, shopping, it really does depend on what their job is to because if some people have expenses for their job that they pay for out of pocket, they can keep track of that too, like professional fees as far as like clothing that goes for work and the list goes on for what you can track.

Jessica Durbin: [00:18:01] But when it comes to the budget, you want to make sure that you go through everything, account for the income, and then maybe if you have a goal to increase your income in some way, like let's say you're self-employed, then you put that goal there and you want to meet that goal every month and then you see what you actually make versus what you did me or what you want to make and then go through the expenses and you see the difference. And each month like this is such a long process and it sounds very tedious, but it's so rewarding at the end once you stay consistent with everything, because if you put a budget on your spending a month and then you actually like meet that goal of taking it down, like let's say you spend random amounts of money on coffees or shopping for unnecessary things in like a miscellaneous category. And then you put a cap on it of like $500 and in the beginning you were spending 1000 and you wanted to bring it down $500. Like that's a financial goal. And so by the end, I would say the next month, you want to see a significant difference in that, because if you're wanting to, I don't know, pay off debt or save up for a trip or remodeling your house or something, you know, you have a financial goal.

Jessica Durbin: [00:19:09] You can put that $500 that you were spending on just not things that you needed, and you could put that into savings. And then when it comes to savings, it's really exciting. I get very excited talking about this stuff because you can open multiple savings accounts that are called sinking funds. And like for the average person who has a household like say they're married with two kids or something, the general like four person household, you want to save up money for emergencies, which I say is like 1500 dollars is good for an emergency fund for like a normal, average family and then like car maintenance, you know, like what if your kid has to go to the hospital and breaks their arm or like, what if something happens to, I don't know, like your washer and dryer or something like that, you want to make sure that you have savings for that to fix it or replace it, whatever you need to do. So it really is tailored to the person and what they have going on, which is so fun. And that's why I love what I do, because originally I thought like when I was being taught this stuff, when I was like 15, I'm like, okay, your numbers, this looks crazy to me. I don't even know why this matters. You know, I'm 15, 16, 17, and I don't care about this.

Jessica Durbin: [00:20:17] But now that I'm older, I have a family, I know how things work, like I have some life experience. It makes so much sense to, like, be proactive about this stuff. Save your money, pay off things that are more of a priority than, I don't know. Like if you have debt, maybe put more money into that than planning a trip to Disney World or something, you know, or kill two birds, one stone and save up money for everything. And then you just figure it out based off of what their income is and what they have going on in their life.

Lunden Souza: [00:20:44]  Yes okay. So I want to say back to you what I heard to make sure that I'm absorbing it clearly and then those listening, maybe this helps too. So like, I love what you do with the budget because it's similar to what I do or let's say what I used to do with customized nutrition. I don't really do customized nutrition plans or things like that and. Me more. But instead of me being like, Oh, here's the budget, here's the meal plan, it's like, Well, what are you already eating? What are you. Okay, so here, let's take out this and some of this instead. So like you said, it's not just about you handing a cookie-cutter budget. It's about looking and categorizing, noticing patterns. Right. Okay. What's food when you're going out? What's these things and being like, okay, in my miscellaneous category of things, I'm hitting about consistently about 1000 bucks a month.

Lunden Souza: [00:21:30] If I want to save you, how can I get that to be a little manipulating the numbers, manipulating macros or whatever is what you would talk about in nutrition. But it's like manipulating the numbers in your own lifestyle and creating that budget accordingly. And that takes consistency and persistence, just like a training plan does, to see where you are and progressively get stronger. And now over time it's been great because I get to see from you like, okay, what am I normally spending what are average spends on food? And I can ask myself, okay, am I, am I going on a smorgasbord and doing things or am I really being like super on point? Like I couldn't spend any more or less feeling good. Yeah, cool. And being able to move through some of those categories. But let's just say like basic so people budgeting, I guess some rule of thumb, like you said, all of this stuff is going to add up and then you have your income and then of course, hopefully you don't want to be in the negative. I think some people can really understand that. Right. You don't want to be spending more than you have, which can also be something in a spiral that I'm sure you found, clients that you've worked with and help them kind of get out of, but that can definitely be a thing.

Lunden Souza: [00:22:34] But let's say like overall, so we know that, right, we want our budget, our income to exceed our expenses. I think for a sound budget. That's awesome. Right. We want to know the categories of what we're spending things on and what the amount is. Right. That's important to know, too. But also, is there like a rule of thumb, like, let's say someone makes X amount a month and let's say if they're like, you know, for lack of better terms, like on a budget or just trying to be fiscally responsible. And let's say if they're a single person or maybe you have some numbers for family, but like, you know, me and what I spend on food is very different than like what a family does. Is there like a percentage of income that's ideal for maybe some ideal common categories? Does that make sense? Like don't spend more than this on your house payment or this on groceries per week. Like what's some maybe like quick takeaways that we can think about right now with the budget we currently have?

Jessica Durbin: [00:23:25] Yeah. So there is like the standard 50, 20, 30% rule where you could do 50% on your bills, your essential things and then 20% would go into savings and then 30% would be anything else. Miscellaneous that you want to spend it on for like fun, entertainment, stuff like that. Me personally, I do not follow this rule just because, like I said previously, everyone's different, everyone's life is different.

Jessica Durbin: [00:23:53] It really depends on the person and their financial goals. So like for me personally, I do not spend 30% on like fun stuff to do every month because like I have kids and I have scheduling and things like that. So like we, we have fun for sure, but it's very like scheduled fun. I guess that sounds really weird, but we end up like going hard throughout like the school year and then for like for example, for holidays we'll go on a trip or we'll go to like Disneyland at the end of the year. We are huge Disneyland fans, Disney fans. So we plan things out so that we are like consistently saving our money and we are doing the things that we need to do on a daily basis. But then we have our financial goals to where the fun happens, like during summer or it happens over winter break or things like that. And we end up like spending all of our time with the kids because the kids have, they're like ballet and soccer and all their scheduling stuff. And so for us, on a monthly basis, it's more important for us to save our money versus like going out every single day for dinner or like every weekend going on a trip. Like we kind of like plan it out. So I'm always like a year ahead and that sounds crazy to a lot of people, but I do not like being caught off guard.

Jessica Durbin: [00:25:08] I like being like very proactive about my money and I like to put it away where it needs to go so that later I can, like, fully relax, take my mind away from work and be there with my kids, be really present and have like the best time and live a really full like vacation with them so that it's not so like stressful, you know, things like that. So, but I'm a huge planner and so that's where I come in with my coaching, where I meet with people who are not so much planners or like projecting out a year. You know, a lot of people unfortunately nowadays live paycheck to paycheck. So that percentage, those percentages I gave you kind of like really depend on what the person is doing, what their income looks like and what their goals are. Because a lot of people are going to like not put 20% of their money into savings and that's just being honest and real about it. Like a lot of people don't even have a savings nowadays, especially with inflation.

Lunden Souza: [00:26:01] Yeah, I know. And I mean, like I said, if. Everyone's going to be different. And just at least having, you know, numbers, I'd be like, okay, what are the numbers I have now? I like that idea of 50, 20, 30. And as with anything like it's what the training plan. I keep coming back to that just because I know that's why a lot of people come to me and have worked with me, but it's just like it doesn't work if you don't work it, right? So it's like if you have the percentages and you're not moving the money where it needs to be going, then it's not going to work for you.

Lunden Souza : [00:26:28] But I love what you mentioned about budgeting for the savings, which is what I've been doing with you too. And I'm much as you know, and everyone's personality in ways that they work are different. And it's up to us to figure out what works for us. But you were like, Oh, what's the idea? You gave me the idea of creating multiple savings account, which I can just easily do, at least with that bank that I bank with on my phone. I can easily open up a new savings account like just like that in five or 10 minutes. I can say this savings account is for this particular thing, for this particular trip, for whether it's medical emergencies or other things. And being able to once you have that foundational budget, which is great and what you work with and you work that until it works and then to start budgeting for savings is great and be able to say, okay, 50 to 100 bucks per month in each of these little accounts, it really impacts over time. So I love that. And then also budgeting for the payments to get out of debt to also say, okay, what's the money that I need to use or to not even necessarily be saving but making sure it doesn't end up in the miscellaneous account that I'm actually making progress and chipping away and getting out of debt in the process of budgeting and still doing a little bit of fun things that allow me to live my life and still make progress towards that.

Lunden Souza: [00:27:41] So I really feel like that's all in the budget. You start just with the basics and those categories, but then starting to be like, okay, so I want to budget for the bigger mountains and start to kind of shovel out in some of that dirt there. So I love that and that's something I've loved working with you on and I just have so much enjoyed in a way I never have before, checking my online, banking on my phone, just being able to open it up. Okay, this goes here. Okay. How much money do I have for the Mexico trip later on in November? Okay, I'm saving. I want to get a new laptop. How much is money is in that savings account and just being able to navigate it because there's clarity there. It's just kind of like the junk drawer that no one wants to think about sometimes. So for planning to get out of debt, I know that you have some different modalities, like I can't remember it. Was it like avalanche? I want to say volcano, but I don't think that's one of them.

Lunden Souza: [00:28:27] I think I'm making that up. But those two ways of getting out of debt have been really helpful and also vary the way that you do things, which is finding unique things that work for your client. So those different modalities might pull up people's heartstrings differently depending on their reward systems or how they just want to go about it. So what are those two different models? Which one do you prefer? What type of personality types are better with those? And I can't remember which one I prefer, but I'll let you know once you go through them.

Jessica Durbin: [00:28:56] So the first one is going to be avalanche and that is where you tackle the what is it? So the snowball and avalanche, those are the two and the avalanche sorry I so I don't use them specifically for like what those two do. I kind of like see who the person is, how they want to do it, which is why you're asking what personality goes with which. So with this, let's start with Snowball. Snowball is where you tackle the little ones all at one time. And so that would be for somebody who just wants to like get rid of all of it and gets that gratification of getting rid of debts really fast. So that would be like for somebody who has multiple credit cards and one of them is like $500.

Jessica Durbin: [00:29:37] The next one's like 800, and then it just keeps going higher and higher. So you tackle those small ones first and you get rid of those, and then you hit up the one with the highest amount of debt on it, like a credit card. Just let's say that for an example, and then that one leaves you. Once you're done with the little ones, you get to the highest amount of debt and then you pay that one off, however long it takes. But once you knock out the little ones first, you end up feeling a little bit better, like, okay, I'm not so much in debt now let me tackle this monster that I have here lurking in the closet. And so that's going to be the snowball method. And then the avalanche is going to be tackling the one with the highest interest rate first. And so that one, I personally like that one because if you think about interest rate in the long term, you end up paying so much in interest when you're like trying to pay something off in like a three-year span. And this goes with like mortgages, cars, credit cards, things like that, and like tackling the one with the highest percentage first. It's going to save you more money in the long run. So I prefer just doing that because the little ones, they're going to be there. And if you can get rid of them as soon as you're done with the highest interest rate, even better, because then it'll still give you that gratification.

Jessica Durbin: [00:30:47] But I like to go through my client's debt because everyone's different and they all have certain things going on. And like if you have a house payment, they like, let's say you want to pay off your house in a certain amount of years, which a lot of people have like a 30-year loan. But some people have the advantage where they. You can pay it off sooner rather than later. So some people go with that or like a car payment. Like for me, I personally like paying off my cars really fast because it makes me feel like, okay, cool, I can trade my car in and I don't know any money on it. It's solely mine. And so I always pay more than the minimum payment on everything anyway, because that's going to boost your credit score too. So like if I want to pay off my car and then trade it in at the end, once I'm done paying it off, my credit score is going to be great. My car will be paid off so I can trade it in in full and get my dream car, let's say, in the next couple of years. And so that's why it's really important for me to get on like a on a daily basis in the beginning, but really get on the same track in the same page with my client so that I know what they really want to do with their money.

Jessica Durbin: [00:31:50] And then that way I can kind of tailor their debt plan, their savings plan to what their financial goals are and then help them. Because like with debt or anything like that, it's going to take a while unless you get some sort of like lump sum of money, you're going to have to put your money in different categories, different spending accounts in the meantime so that you're being responsible with your money and paying it off. Because later, once your debts paid off, the sky's the limit for whatever you could do with your savings, you know? And then that money that you were paying towards your debts could go into a different pot somewhere else for like a trip in the future, you know? And so I really customize things to my clients in that way.

Lunden Souza: [00:32:26] Yeah. And really helping them or help as they're painting that picture picture for you of what they want and being able to be like, okay, these are the steps that you should be taking to get there. And yeah, it is a really emotional process and I find that the snowball method seems more I think that's the one that I prefer to. I didn't have a lot, but there was like a couple smaller ones that I wanted to pay off. And now that I'm thinking about it, that final piece of debt that I'm almost finished with is, was the bigger balance overall was always paying for that a little bit, but I feel like the snowball is a little more emotional where you have those wins where you're like, Yeah, I did it, you know? And just like with anything with fitness program, like if you don't like it and it's not working for you, it's not like checking the boxes and it's not a fitness plan that works, right? It could work for someone else if it doesn't work for you.

Lunden Souza: [00:33:10] Whereas the avalanche just seems so much more strategic and so much more duh. But sometimes in the moment, like, it's really hard to be able to make those decisions based on done. It's nice to be able to have an emotionally supportive method for people like me too. So that's super cool. So finances and connecting to everything in the way that we just feel in our body, in our life. I know that we could probably do like a two hour masterclass on just talking about that and what that can mean. And and also in that same category, you know, where we invest our money is really important. And I'm sure maybe you've heard this before and I know I've heard this as well. And coaching is just like not being able to afford it. So it's like, how do we want to ask this? Like in a really in a good, clear way, but like how do we understand that finances connect and relate to everything? So we need to take care of them and make it important and make it valuable and still use that money to be able to invest in our coaching and our health and our wellness and our overall wellbeing.

Lunden Souza: [00:34:18] Right? Like still investing in us while still budgeting and maybe getting out of debt or doing some of those things. So knowing like, okay, if we had all the money in the world, let's say, right? Like, but, you know, limitless money, right? What we do with it is really what's going to make that kind of meeting and experience out of our life. So how can we have a great budget and get out of debt and have that and feel that impact in our body, in everything that we do, and then still be able to, even if we are living paycheck to paycheck, to still be able to invest in our personal development and in our growth and maybe in further coaching and further expansion. So then it's not in that space where it's like, I can't afford it, so I can't do it, so I can't do it, so I can't afford it, you know, because there were times when I was investing, you know, in quick courses or even freebies of certain things before I realized, Oh, I really need to invest in more coaches and more expertise in this place. Does that make sense? Am I clear in that questioning of like, how can we be clear that it impacts everything? But in the process of maybe being in a sticky financial situation, still invest in ourselves in a financially responsible way, but still, be able to do that.

Lunden Souza: [00:35:33] Does that make sense? Yeah. So I think of COVID, too, because COVID found a lot of people in a very financially stuck situation. But then it's like, we need coaches, we need that help, we need that support more than ever and we should be able to. I want people to be able to still invest in that. So how can we still?

Jessica Durbin: [00:35:50]  Yeah, that's a great question because so like throughout COVID, I was working with a ton of people because it was like COVID hit. People were losing their jobs like nobody saw it coming. So like the people that don't have savings. And like emergency funds, they were like, Oh my gosh, what am I going to do? I just lost my job. I have nothing now. So in that case, like I had a bunch of tax clients that were kind of in that boat. They didn't know what to do. And I with all of my clients, I give advice like during their tax appointment. It's not like I charge $150 an hour for advice or whatever. It's I see it like how I see patterns. And then they talk about it's almost like a therapist or a bartender, if you will. They tell me their whole life story, which I need to know these things in order to tell them how to use their money, where to put it, stuff like that.

Jessica Durbin: [00:36:36] So when they were coming to me and telling me everything that was going on, it's like, okay, so what if you like? I don't know. I guess I do like brainstorming with every client that I talk to because I'm like, Well, you could do it like this or Let's try it this way. Or Maybe this way would be better for you. And so when it comes to like not having a lot of extra money and like let's say you don't have a savings or, you know, people in those types of situations where they've lost their job and they need to start over and then they want to go into like a different career path or something like that. It's all about like if you want to make it happen. And so that's where motivation comes in a plan. Like even so like when you want to start a plan and you want to meet up with the coach, there's always the option of like being resourceful, maybe bartering, talking to somebody who, you know, seeing if somebody else knows somebody else down the line. And I know that during COVID and even still now, because we're feeling the effects of it still, there are people out there that will give you stuff at a discounted price. So negotiations even so, like if you wanted to sign up for a coaching course to become a coach of some sort, like let's just say lifestyle coach, right? Like you want to sign up for a course, do some professional development, but the course ends up being like $800 or something like that that you don't have.

Jessica Durbin: [00:37:50] So talking with the person, it's almost like if you get on a relatable like level with somebody and you just tell them and be honest about your situation and you say, I really want to do this so that I can better myself and get into a different position. Can we do payments? Can we do a bartering system? Like what can I offer you in exchange for this course? Or, you know, there are so many different ways of negotiating things and then if you have something to bring to the table, even better. But in the instance that they say no and they're just like, Nope, we can't barter with you or anything like that. That's when your budget comes into play and that's when it is unfortunate where you have to wait and you have to save your money and you have to plan it out. And like if you lost your job, there's always, well, in California, at least there's unemployment. People can go on or, you know, there are different things like being, like I said before, resourceful and figuring out like a side hustle of some sort. Like if you're good at, I don't know, making bracelets, make some bracelets, sell them on Etsy, go to vendor fairs.

Jessica Durbin: [00:38:49] Like you really just have to get super strategic with what you're doing in order to get what you want. Because if you're motivated, if you have goals, if you want to better yourself, you will in the end because you just are going to make it happen. And so if you need support, there are people like for me I was doing like offers where it's like, let's meet and talk for an hour for free, no charge. Let me help you brainstorm. Get yourself out there, figure out what the plan is. And then like with my tax clients, they can call me all year long and ask me certain questions, advice, stuff like that, and I try to get them on the right path. But it's all about sticking with stuff, being consistent, having the balance of income versus expenses. And if your income is like zero, then you got to get yourself out there and figure out a side hustle so that you can make some money, so that you can better yourself and get in a better position.

Lunden Souza: [00:39:41] Yeah, I love that. I love that. I'm like taking notes as you're talking to and I love that the word resourceful came up because that came up in one of my one on one client coaching calls the other day. She was just talking about like in yeah, without giving away too much of the story because it's not necessary.

Lunden Souza: [00:39:56] But the word resourceful came up because she was in a space where she was just kind of like realize she was in a pool of being sick of a certain situation. And she's like, No, I'm resourceful. Like I'm going to figure it out. And in the midst of that frustration, she still was reminded of that resourcefulness. And so I love that because we can always my dad would say, find a way, find a way, Lunden find a way. And we can always find a way there. And I'm just reminded of resourceful situations and I think would be valuable to share. I remember one time in kind of both sides of the coin, so I remember one time when I was living in Austria working with a client one on one. And she had mentioned to me, she's like, Yeah, I want to change our times that we work together because I'm going to get a new nanny position. So that way I can make extra income to continue to pay for our sessions together. So if we switch blah, blah, blah, like perfect love that resourcefulness. I did that to myself because when I moved from Austria to come to America, I was leaving all the consistent income from Adidas, Runtastic, all those partnerships, and everything. And I remember I there was, I was wanting to continue to work from anywhere. I had my values of wanting to continue to work from my computer being online.

Lunden Souza: [00:41:01] But then I also was like, okay, I want. You go to this meditation retreat, I want to be able to dive deeper into learning about some things that are going to cost some money. So I also nanny then I worked for a family in our hometown where Jessica and I are from. We didn't mention that at the beginning, but we're from the same hometown. Didn't? Yeah. We met each other and became friends and close later. But I nanny for them because I was like, okay, yeah, I want to go to this retreat. It's going to cost like three or 4000 bucks of extra money, like someone who just don't have it's just like it's not it's not there yet. And so it was like, okay, find a way. What can I do? How can I be resourceful to create this extra income to go and invest in this meditation retreat, which is so invaluable? Looking back to my personal development, how I developed as a coach, how I developed my business online, all those different types of things. So being resourceful there and then also just remembering moments where, yeah, we can be in that moment of where we just feel like we just have enough. Like we're just, we're always just getting to that enough point. And I remember having a conversation with my life coach about just like I'm sick of being just enough. Like, I don't want to have just enough to make ends meet or to just meet all the stuff in my budget.

Lunden Souza: [00:42:07] I want to be able to save, to get out of debt and save for other things. And I want to be able to just not have that not enough story anymore. And that's what I love about working with you, is you really help and hold space for those stories and let people have things come up because and then we realize like, oh yeah, you know, if I'm, if I'm just going to continue to be satisfied with just having enough, I'm going to continue to just get enough. So until I had that moment of being like, No, moss, I want to do all the things to not be and not enough girl anymore. Jessica Show me the way. And it was like between you and a lot of the other personal development, you know, and like I love that you mentioned bartering and, you know, I'm not not I don't want to say I'm not not a fan of it. It's just like I love possibility. And so sometimes you run into people where it's like, Oh, I need your service. You need mine. Okay, perfect. I couldn't have afforded that anyways. So I want, you know, and then in those moments where you can, it's great to be able to be like, No, I'm going to pay you for your service in your time because that's valuable. And being able to elevate on that exchange too is so exciting and something that honestly I just share.

Lunden Souza: [00:43:07] And I know because of working with you, like honestly, it's everything I learn and have experienced and all the growth and continued growth I know I will have to comes from just being open and vulnerable and being like, okay, I'm not the expert in this space. And even if I was, I'm too emotional to deal with it right now. I need someone else to come in and to see the water when I'm the fish and give me some more perspective and to put some more logic into some emotional spaces, but also still listen because you know, yeah, while getting nails done every week might not be in the budget, treating yourself to a nice massage every two months might. Right. So just being able to strategize and knowing what works for me has been so helpful with you. So thank you so much for all this. I love it so much and I know that. Yeah, I know we can and probably will continue to dive deeper into more of these topics for future recordings and podcast episodes and things like that. You do have some really awesome. I want you to let people know how they can connect with you, your website, social media and stuff too. And then I know you have some awesome resources when it comes to savings and budgeting, like PDFs and things that we can have links to.

Lunden Souza: [00:44:18] So everything all link in the description, but maybe you can just mention that to so people can be excited about it.

Jessica Durbin: [00:44:25] Sure. Yeah. Well, I have my my basic website Durbin bookkeeping dot com. And I'm sure that there will be links on this and everything but the website. And then I have my savings challenge which is saving $500 in a month and that one's super cool for like holiday time or like a couple of months before. So like right now because we're in August, that would be cool to pick up. And then I also have a budget spreadsheet that is just like a generic budget where it's like you plug it in from your own stuff, you know, your own list and categories. And then I do have a like a little guide that's like a do it yourself type of like getting into your magnetic money mentality where it's like manifesting your money's like to the point of your last story where it's like you had a trip that you wanted to go on. I remember you were like manifesting that, you know, like you were putting out all the good vibes. And so that's sort of an e guide on like getting your budget together, a savings plan, a debt plan. And it's really like fast pace for people who already kind of have an idea of like what they want to do, their goals, stuff like that. And that I have a link for that and it's the magnetic money mentality guide.

Jessica Durbin: [00:45:36] I have my money mindset coaching, my financial coaching, which is like tailored to the individual person or I do it for people who own businesses also because the finances connect to everything when it comes to people who are self-employed and getting on the right track with that is really important. I think that's it. I can't really I don't know. I don't think I have anything else.

Lunden Souza: [00:46:00] perfect. Yeah. You have all the things and I've used every single resource. You mentioned everything from, like, Jessica's free resource all the way to she does my monthly bookkeeping for my business. Sometimes I ask her, how much money do I have for this? Or What should I? What would be a good amount of money or a safe or just like a smart, let's say, not even safe but smart amount of money to spend on this or if I'm saving for this. So in all all capacity from your free PDF to working with you and having access with you one on one, it's all really, really good stuff and I just feel really grateful. And you know, I namedrop you all the time because even my parents, my family transitioned over to working with Jessica after me, working with her, and then even my friends. It's like after a while it's almost like it's funny because my friends, even now, when they talk about money or like situations or Oh yeah, I want to do this or save for this, or Oh, I splurged on this.

Lunden Souza: [00:46:54] I needed to save it for this. And then sometimes under their breath, they'll be like, I know, I know. I should call Jessica. I should call Jessica, you know? And then sometimes I'll get that text. Finally, after working with you for multiple years and talking about the difference you've made in my life. Yeah. One of my friends texted me the other day. She's like, Hey, can you tell me the name of that money girl again? And I'm like, Yeah, I just send you over your contact because it's like when people are ready, they'll be ready. And yeah, I'm just so grateful for the work that you do. Going beyond just taxes, going beyond just numbers and being robotic and actually putting some humanness in it and allowing us to live our lives while reaching our financial goals to being able to enjoy it has been a good process, no matter how scary I thought it was. It was like the big monster that was just a monster, like a shadow puppet on the wall. And then I realized like, Oh, it was just a little fuzz that was projected by this light that made it look all big and scary. And really, it was just a matter of getting out of my own way and hiring and bringing in a professional like you to help me. So all those links will be anywhere you're listening or watching this video, all those links will be available. Thank you, Jessica, for all the work that you do and yeah, talk to you later. Thank you.

Lunden Souza: [00:48:03] Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Self, Love and Sweat, the podcast. Hey, do me a favor. Wherever you're listening to this podcast, give us a review. This really helps a lot and share this with a friend. I'm only one person and with your help we can really spread the message of self love and sweat and change more lives all around the world. I'm Lunden Souza, reminding you that you deserve a life full of passion, presence and purpose fueled by self, love and sweat. This podcast is a hitspot Austria production.