The Five Archetypes for Relationships & Leadership with Carey Davidson

What do the 5 elements have to do with your personality? Quite a lot! Learn your archetypes, what it means about you and learn how to get unstuck in life and relationships. In this episode, Lunden welcomes Carey Davidson to the show to talk all about using the Five Archetypes to truly understand yourself and others even more. If you want more meaningful relationships and connections, you definitely want to tune in to this episode.

Grab BOOK HERE >> The Five Archetypes

World-renowned Resilience Coach Carey (30+ years in relationships, HR, wellness) helps individuals & organizations transform through coaching, consulting & retreats. Author of "The Five Archetypes," Carey empowers you to build stronger relationships & drive positive change.

Timestamps to help you navigate this episode:
0:00 Intro
2:46 FREE Self Love & Sweat MONTHLY Calendar
13:53 Five Elements Personality Traits Analysis
25:53 Fostering Growth Mindset and Empathy
42:43 Exploring Personal Growth and Collaboration
56:17Leadership and Empathy in Team Dynamics
1:04:26 Sponsor: Snap Supplements 25% OFF using code LUNDEN25
1:06:23 Understanding Archetypes and Relationship Dynamics

Carey Davidson’s 5A Method: Free Stuck Finder Session for Lunden Souza Fans: https://bit.ly/5ALunden

Connect with Carey:
LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/careydavidson/
IG: @careydavidson_author
FB: https://www.facebook.com/AuthorCareyDavidson/

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 0:21 FREE Self Love & Sweat MONTHLY Calendar
• 11:28 Five Elements Personality Traits Analysis
• 23:28 Fostering Growth Mindset and Empathy
• 40:18 Exploring Personal Growth and Collaboration
• 53:52 Leadership and Empathy in Team Dynamics
• 1:02:01 Sponsor: Snap Supplements 25% OFF using code LUNDEN25
• 1:03:58 Understanding Archetypes and Relationship Dynamics

Transcript

Lunden Souza: 0:01

Welcome to Self Love and Sweat the podcast, the place where you'll get inspired to live your life unapologetically, embrace your perfect imperfections, break down barriers and do what sets your soul on fire. I'm your host, Lunden Souza. Hey, have you grabbed your free Self Love and Sweat monthly calendar yet? This calendar is so amazing. It comes right in your inbox every single month to help you have a little nugget of wisdom, a sweaty workout, a mindset activity, just a little something, something to help keep you focused and motivated and keep that momentum towards your goals. So every day, when you get this calendar, you'll see a link that you can click that will lead to a podcast episode or a workout or something that will be very powerful and quick to read. And then you'll also see, on the top left corner of every single day, there's a little checkbox in the calendar and what that is is that's for your one thing. You can choose one thing every month, or it can be the same, something that you want to implement and make this something that you can easily implement, like daily meditation or getting a certain amount of steps or water, for example, and staying hydrated and even taking your supplements. This can be something if you want to get more regular doing a particular habit and routine. You can choose what that checkbox means. So if you want your self-love and sweat free monthly calendar delivered right to your inbox every month on the first of the month, go to lifelikelunden. com/ calendar, fill out the form really quickly and you will have your calendar in your inbox within a few short minutes. That's lifelikelunden L-I-F-E, L-I-K-E L-U-N-D-E-N dot com forward slash calendar. Go, get yours for free and enjoy this episode.

Lunden Souza: 2:08

Welcome back to the podcast and Self Love and Sweat Radio, wherever you're listening to this. So excited about our guest today, Carey Davidson. I met Carey, or connected with her because even though I'm looking at you, Carey, on the screen here, we still actually haven't met in person, which is what I love about just this online space and the way that we can connect and social media, podcasting, all the things. But I connected with Carey because my best friend, Allie we've been best friends since we were two. We've just been doing life together, our whole lives, and we read books together, we share insights together and it seems like, yeah, we have these ebbs and flows of life around the same time-ish. And so she reached out to me because her and I had just been really evolving and growing together.

Lunden Souza: 2:53

And she's like I read this book, the Five Archetypes have you heard of it before? And she sent me the screenshot of the book cover and I was like, oh, one time I was at a seminar and your book was like among other books on this table and I remember thumbing through it and looking through it a little bit. So it rang a bell and it was familiar to me and she was like she'd be a great guest for your podcast. You should take the quiz and get your archetypes figured out. She let me know what hers were.

Lunden Souza: 3:21

And so that's what I did. I went to Instagram. I found Carey on Instagram. I and um, and so that's what I did. I went to Instagram. I found Carey on Instagram. I was like, hey, my best friend said I need to connect with you. She's found a lot of help in her life and in her evolution as a woman through your book and through the learnings about herself, uh, through what she, what she uh was revealed to her through her archetypes. And so, yeah, and you said yes, and I was like, let's do it. So I reached out and just kind of let you know. And here we are, which I think is so cool because, yeah, I love my best friend, I love that journey that we're on, and if she says, you know, there's this great piece of content out there that you need to read and need to be involved in, I'm on it and so I'm grateful that you responded. I'm grateful that you responded, I'm grateful that you agreed to be here with us today.

Carey Davidson: 4:08

Carey Davidson. Welcome to the podcast. Hey, thank you, Lunden. That was beautiful. I love best friends and how they help us grow and how we learn from each other, so that's a beautiful story. I'm glad that that's how I made my way into your life.

Lunden Souza: 4:28

Yeah, I love it too. It's cool. I love looking back at some of these stories or even people listening. It's like we sometimes think, oh, I want to reach out to someone, but what if they think that's weird? Or they don't respond and I'm like, whatever, I'm just going to reach out and I always operate under the principle like grownups can always say no. So like if you don't want to do it, you could say no and that's okay. And the world keeps turning and we keep moving, so I'm grateful that you said yes and that we're here today. Firstly, just yeah, share with our audience a little bit more about you and how you got started and what fueled that fire which I know is one of your main archetypes that you shared with me before fueled that fire to create these five archetypes?

Carey Davidson: 5:09

Yeah, Well, I have always been curious about relationships and always curious about what makes some fantastic and what makes others fraught with friction, and I couldn't understand it. I knew I was just tossed around in it and I grew up, I went to college, ended up going into human resources and I was running human resources at Columbia University. At the college and I started to see a whole bunch of people, not necessarily sitting in their power, getting along well, getting things done. There was a lot of friction and a lot of miscommunication and in that space I'm like I bet there's something out there that can fix this, that people don't have to suffer so much in the work environment not understanding each other. I I got all these off the shelf one size fits all communication, management, leadership, training, things I brought to the staff. But, um, the people in the classroom would have some revelations. They would be like, ooh, that's cool, I get it, I get it. But then when, when the I was going to say when the proverbial, you know what hits the fan in those all things.

Lunden Souza: 6:31

All we have to do is press the explicit button on the podcast, and then we're good.

Carey Davidson: 6:35

Okay, maybe that'll get more takers. What are they saying on that podcast? Um, so when the shit hits the fan, it doesn't matter if you have a psychologically safe environment. We don't know how to find our words, we don't know what to do when we feel uncomfortable and there's no one who teaches us that. It's not part of any curriculum of life, and we're just kind of tossed into the mix of our environment and we kind of you know, just have to kind of wing it of our environment and we kind of be, you know, just have to kind of wing it.

Carey Davidson: 7:09

And so I went through HR. Then I started running nonprofits for at-risk youth, hoping that I could deliver something to them that would help kids flourish and not have to struggle through difficult relationships. But still, I was finding the same struggle and I learned about these five elements in Chinese medicine through a pediatrician, a dear friend and colleague of mine, and I asked him I'm like every child on the planet needs access to this, because it's a model for exactly how to thrive in the face of challenge. And um, and so we started a nonprofit together and, um, by that at that point I had had um, an integrative wellness center I started in New York and my adult clients came to me for Ayurvedic nutrition. I'm a reiki master, so they come for energy work and vibroacoustic sound therapy and um, and the one thing that worked the best was five archetypes. These five elements um giving people the tools to understand themselves and know how to thrive and change their situation when they felt stuck.

Carey Davidson: 8:27

And so I ended up. One of my clients was an author and her publisher asked to be introduced to me so that I could write a book with them, and so I wrote a book with Simon Schuster. It came out in 2020, right alongside COVID, and the world blew up and I started teaching this. Primarily, I had to shut down the center. We were in lockdown and I was not reopening, and so I started teaching. Tony Robbins found the work. I presented at one of his conferences. I presented at one of his conferences and then it just started to explode. From there, I work in companies, I have one-on-one clients and work in school systems still with the nonprofit and teaching people how to recognize when they're stuck and what to do to get out of it.

Lunden Souza: 9:23

I love that out of it.

Lunden Souza: 9:29

I love that, and I think everybody listening right now can think of a moment, or is in a moment right now, where they felt stuck and they didn't know what to do and they weren't sure what the next step to get unstuck was. And maybe what another friend used to get unstuck isn't working for them either, and so really being able to offer tools that help us understand ourselves more is so freaking cool. Let's talk about briefly the five archetypes, and then what we're going to do for those listening today is I took my archetype quiz and I told Carey no holds barred, let's analyze my archetypes, ask any questions, let's dive deep in this so that you guys can learn more about this work and how it specifically can pertain to everyday life relationships with ourselves and others, and then also, yeah, inspire others to figure out what their archetypes are and learn more about themselves. So, yeah, let's start there first. What are the five archetypes and what's maybe like the cliff notes or the gist of each one that we can kind of highlight first? Yeah, for sure.

Carey Davidson: 10:32

So the five archetypes correspond to nature. They are fire, earth, metal, water and wood. We all have all five. We all have all five in different amounts According to Chinese medicine philosophy. We have one. That's our primary and it kind of leads the way we interact with the world and it tells us how we're going to get stuck, how we're going to get out of it and what our growth path is. And it tells us what we're going to need in order to recover from the stories we're telling ourselves about that guy we just went on a date with and why he didn't text us back.

Lunden Souza: 11:09

And I love that you said the story that we're telling ourselves about, because that's really what it is. You could say, oh, it was just like it was what it was, or you could make this whole story, and I love that you just had to highlight that there, because those stories anything will keep us stuck. It's those stories, yeah.

Carey Davidson: 11:26

Yeah, a hundred percent again. So we all have these five. I will give you the cliff notes version of each of the five that pertains to like. We all have all these parts of ourselves, but I'll give you the cliff notes of each will be if that's your primary, you overdo this thing in your life and it's also your strength. So fire. Fire's gift to the world is joy and hope and optimism. Fire needs to be seen, loves to be celebrated. Fire loves touch and intimacy and romance.

Carey Davidson: 12:00

Fire's biggest fears in the world revolve around loss of love or loss of connection. And when they imagine, have the story that they are losing love or losing connection, they go into big panic, big drama, big anxiety. Then we have Earth. Earth's gift to the world is unity and community and connection, like being together, empathy, earth, people, primary. Earth needs to be needed.

Carey Davidson: 12:31

Their biggest fears revolve around the idea of being abandoned and when they feel abandonment might be happening, they go into worry, obsessive worry, and overwhelm and rumination, so much so that they become inert, they become stuck. Then you have metal. Metal's biggest gift to the world is value. They're able to innately know what's a valuable way to spend your time or what's a valuable thing to do and to get rid of the rest. Only focus on what's that diamond in the rough. Their biggest fears revolve around being wrong, making a mistake. When they feel too much chaos or too much change, they go into over-focusing on the details and losing sight of the big picture, or over-focusing on what was wrong rather than what's right. Then you have water. Water's gift to the world is peace we need more of that Water people.

Carey Davidson: 13:45

They are philosophers, dreamers, poets. They're deep thinkers. They love to meditate, they love to think. They can't tolerate socializing too much, so they tend to be a little bit socially awkward, uncomfortable making eye contact, awkward, uncomfortable making eye contact. Their biggest fears revolve around being misunderstood. And when they go into those fear states they tend towards over isolation and even depression. And then we have wood. So wood's gift to the world is freedom, and it's freedom from the obstacles we perceive that we believe we have. Wood sees an obstacle as an opportunity to do something different, to try a new way, as if it's a fun challenge or a game. Wood can't tolerate people or things getting in their way of getting things done fast. And when they do have things getting in their way of getting things done fast, and when they do have things getting in their way of getting things done fast, their stress state shows up as anger, like a burst of loudness, a yell or a push. And what else about wood? I think that was it.

Lunden Souza: 15:09

I'm like did I cover a ball? We got them so good. Okay, Then we get to dive into mine. Yes, yes, we do. Cool, and you have my results in front of me. Mine are in my email. I need to pop them open.

Lunden Souza: 15:23

But I remember when I first took my quiz and then I shared it with my best friend, Allie, she was like oh yeah, I thought that you would. I don't remember specifically which one she said it might've been. Would I don't remember which one? My primary? Do you have the list in front of you? I do. Of what one my primary? Do you have the list in front of you? I do, I do. Okay, cool, Cause I know I saved it, but I probably you have it accessible faster. Is my first one? Wood? It is. Yeah, that was the one that she said she goes. When I was reading through this, that's exactly what I thought that you were. And I was like, oh okay. And so I kind of looked in a little bit of the PDF of kind of what I was sent and kind of the details about that. But I mean, she's known me since I was two, so for her she was like oh yeah, that's what I thought you were.

Carey Davidson: 16:16

You know, I love that. So let me tell you a little bit about when I work with somebody. So let me tell you a little bit about when I work with somebody. The assessment results are slightly useless. Out of context, If you take a personality test of I don't know, there's so many different personality tests that you could take Many of them will give you a report as soon as you have your assessment results. They're like here's you, here's all the things about you, here's how you are in, really whatever.

Lunden Souza: 16:48

It just tells you this complete Okay but what do I do with this information Right?

Carey Davidson: 16:57

So the five archetypes work? It's almost the exact reverse. It's like it doesn't tell you anything unless you have a problem to solve. It's a rubric for problem solving. So if you, you plug in the challenge and it gives you exactly how to flourish in the face of that challenge, like step-by-step, simple things to do from the with the body, the physical, the cognitive, behavioral, social, emotional, spiritual, every layer. Because you know it's an Eastern practice, which is we believe that you know there is no, we can't separate the human. We're not just our psychology, you know, because your psychology is going to change if you didn't eat breakfast or if somebody really you know, you had someone supposed to show up at nine and they didn't show up. You're not going to be that, that type. So so my question for you is is there something pressing in your life that you would love to change? Is there some area where you feel like you're misaligned or you're feeling stuck?

Lunden Souza: 18:11

that I feel misaligned or feeling stuck in. So where I'm at right now when I think of that question. So I worked for a company in Austria, lived in Europe for a long time, did all these big events, wore all the hats, did all the things full gas, right. Then that worked until it didn't Hormones just so much disarray, right. So I worked on really slowing things down, really dove into the work of Dr Joe Dispenza, have been meditating with him a lot, gone to a lot of his events and retreats. Learn to love the present moment, the now and then.

Lunden Souza: 19:02

I run my coaching business, my podcast. I just signed a contract for a year or two to run these brain balance centers here in Utah, which is non-medicated intervention for social, emotional, cognitive yeah struggles for students and adults, right. So now I'm going to go in and I'm going to run the centers in Utah, run the enrollment, the families, right. And then I'm also helping or working with 15 of my friends to start a community called NABA which stands for the natural art of being alive, all the things right. So where I'm at now is I'm like, okay, I know that I can do hard things, but I am not going to do it the way that I did before because that was exhausting. That was so much right. So I feel like I'm in this space of like I'm a little bit scared to press the gas because I don't know. I don't want to press it too hard because I remember what that looked like before and I'm looking and I'm like I got a lot on my plate. It all resonates. I've got really good at setting boundaries, saying no to what doesn't, and I'm really excited about this bouquet in front of me. It's like when you buy a bouquet and a lot of them are still closed and they haven't bloomed yet, and you're like, oh yeah, I know it's going to be so awesome. And I was actually laughing with my friend Kevin today. I was like I know it's going to work out. I don't know how, but like I just know you know.

Lunden Souza: 20:26

So where I'm at right now, where I feel stuck, is I'm like I want to go, but I'm a little bit scared to go too far and burn out. So I'm like in this dance of like, what can I take from that? The past time I've pushed the pedal to the metal, but in a way that did not serve me. So now I feel like that I almost like it's like a physical. I can't say it with words, but with my body. It's like a like you're like, people listening can't hear it, but I'm like going and stopping. I'm kind of like, and now I, um, I want to learn how to nurture myself and crush it. I know it's possible, you know, but, um, I'm just a little bit scared of the past and I don't want to copy paste that. So that's where I feel a little bit stuck is sometimes I'm not sure what the next best action is, because I don't want it to snowball into too many things that's gonna get me to that point before. So that's what's really happening, like now.

Carey Davidson: 21:29

Wow. So can you give me an example, like a specific example, of what you don't want to happen this time?

Lunden Souza: 21:39

I don't want to go unconscious. I don't want to be doing all the things wearing all the hats. I want to. What I see now and where I'm really wanting to pivot is like. I recently read this book that I love too. It's called who, not how, and I think I've been so caught up in the how and being the doer of all the things so I don't want to. The thing I'm scared of is I'm going to go in and be like I can just do it, rather than being like, no, who's the best person to do this and how can I lead that person, bring that person in to then help support the mission, instead of me trying to do it all on my own.

Carey Davidson: 22:16

Have you ever had to manage people Mm-hmm. And did you find that it was challenging to delegate and have them actually do what you needed them to do?

Lunden Souza: 22:30

My old story that I've definitely hung the hat up on, that I can look back on, is nobody can do it as good as I can, so I need to do it, cause they're not that good, and it's just like but now I just really love people and I almost don't even like care if they can't do it as well as me, as long as they're growing and we're learning and it's you know, I mean, obviously you want the person to be pretty proficient at what they're doing, but there needs to be I'm learning to enjoy now the um, that that training process. Like, okay, let's look at it again. All right, let's talk about it. You know, cause I know when I'm learning something, I you know someone can't just tell me and walk away.

Lunden Souza: 23:10

But that's kind of the way that I was at first. Cause I'm like just do it. Okay, you couldn't figure it out. All right, I'm going to do it and I don't. I don't like that, that doesn't work, it just doesn't Um, and so the new story that I'm really leaning into and I catch myself a little bit also, um, is just like no, it's, it's about that connection. It's about fostering growth and people being part of the mission, not needing to check the boxes, you know.

Carey Davidson: 23:38

So, so you, you described this kind of pulsing, like you show, you know, in the, in the, in the visual, it was like moving, starting, moving and stopping, and moving and stopping. When you feel the, that drive to move, what's the? What's the mental part of that? What is the mind saying? When the body moves forward, what is it that you're going after?

Lunden Souza: 24:04

I'm excited. Momentum growth. I've been a part of startups before. I've started things from ground up where it's like it's exciting, that pursuit is exciting, that goal is exciting and I'm excited. It's not a. Before it was like do it because I think I'm supposed to, because that was like the work is your worth, was like our family story that I've worked to rewrite. Now it's like no, I'm just excited. I like to serve and provide value. So there's excitement, but then I'm like wait, is that the right thing to start with first? Are you trying to? There's just a little reservation and I want to go after it. But there's just a little. It's kind of like if you've been hurt in a relationship before or heartbroken, then you're a little bit more reserved going into that next relationship. That's kind of how I feel. I'm like that hurts, but I'm like you have way better tools this time. I know that there's more resources available now, but there's still that fear of the hurt and the pain.

Carey Davidson: 25:18

So it's interesting you said when you described what that forward body movement was in words. You said momentum, growth, upward pursuit, goal, excited, and all those words are wood correlates, like that's what wood does. Wood is yes, so wood is this. If you can imagine us like this coil that's ground all the way up to the heavens and it's always, it's always moving up, there's always momentum in it. That's what is in the body of a primary wood and it's constantly. It needs momentum in order to feel safe. And so so there's a drive, there's an there's always a drive. And the reason for that, like you know the frustration in, you know their biggest fear or stress state is anyone or anything getting in the way of moving forward fast. Because that coil it needs to move, it needs forward upward action all the time. And so, a little, somebody standing in the way and saying very slowly, Lunden, can we talk about something? Over a four-hour lunch is like oh ow, it can be physically painful to a wood person.

Lunden Souza: 26:42

Yeah, and that's something that meditation has helped me with tremendously is like being in the moment, listening to the person, not trying to the moment, listening to the person not trying to. That's probably one of the biggest, yeah, one of the two biggest side effects of meditation I've noticed, because when you did that, I was like, oh yeah, before, like, and there's even parts of me that still kind of live, where you're like no, shut up, like just talking. You know it's no good at all, like you know, but yes, like you know, but yes, exactly.

Carey Davidson: 27:12

Yeah, it's great, I love that. So water, so these elements come in a cycle and they always live in, like if you start with fire on top, then clockwise, it's fire, earth, metal, water and then wood. The element that comes right before our primary nurtures us so that we're not impulsive, and water is the one that comes right before wood. Water is hydration, sleep, meditation, listening, thinking, using your imagination, your creativity, pausing, waiting, all of those slow things that are all about eternity, something that's lasting forever. Water also corresponds to the truth, um, and it's interesting, the truth, um. The truth is about um, what? What is lasting forever, forever. What is integrity? What are we plugging into that's real and unchanging?

Carey Davidson: 28:18

And water is also corresponding to the depths of winter, when everything's frozen and nothing's moving.

Carey Davidson: 28:26

And it also represents the element that across the world, represents the element that, across the world, about 90% of people have it as their lowest.

Carey Davidson: 28:37

And so, if you think about what's happening in our own personal mental health, like around the world, our relationships around the world communities and globally, if we have lowest water to that degree, we're not pausing, we're not listening, we're not taking a breath before we make a decision, we're believing all the stories we tell ourselves, or all the things we hear in our consciousness from other people as well.

Carey Davidson: 29:12

Okay, so now, if your lowest element is water and your highest is wood, which is um, which is what your, your results look like, um, your, your wood energy, um, really needs that boost of water in order to not feel that, that pulse that you were showing me before, that impulsive stop, start, stop, start, um, that water, that infusion of, of consistent water, will help you be more smooth and fluid and being able to notice when it's time to use that high wood energy and then when it's time to kind of slow down. It felt like you were saying. It makes me feel like when we start learning to drive a car we don't know how heavy to push on the gas or the brake and you're getting whiplash.

Lunden Souza: 30:08

Exactly. That's a good way to describe it too, for people that were listening and didn't see me moving. It's like just have someone drive and then press on the brakes fast. That's what I was doing.

Carey Davidson: 30:17

Yeah. So I love that you've been working with Joe, because these meditations are so important for wood people. It's important for everybody, but what it gives you is that smoother way of moving in and pulling out and being able to have that internal voice kind of watching you and giving you that. Okay, hold on a minute, let's think about this before we take action, and it will ultimately allow you to see the story that you're creating as you're creating it and eventually get you to the point where you can predict it before you ever step into a room, and prepare yourself and the other people in the room for a much higher conscious, growth-minded, empathetic engagement, which is where we'll go. That's what I hope to teach you today.

Lunden Souza: 31:19

Growth-minded, empathetic engagement. I love that and I'll echo or agree, affirm what you said about that. Yeah, I have to meditate, I have to, and sometimes I'll fight it and I, as Dr Joe will say, tame the dog, sit, stay, you know. And I I feel that deeply. And then also, when you mentioned it's like you're almost like the observer of the thought and the and you're like watching it all play out before deciding then to make that decision, and that, especially recently, I'd say, within the last like so yeah, the last like six months or so, really resonates being able to have that different perspective and observe that more clearly beforehand.

Carey Davidson: 32:07

Yeah, and that is very hard to do. Um, now, that's a, that's a quality of water. The water element in us, the water element, allows us to sit still and observe our own thoughts as if they're just objects in our awareness, um, not having anything to do with the truth. Like we, we will each, each of the primary elements, has a very specific, predictable um perspective that they will take under stress and um, and if you understand what that perspective is going to be, uh, you know that it's fixed-minded, you know that it has nothing to do with truth beforehand. And so, when those very specific thoughts pop in, you know not to believe the story you're creating about it. You know to have humor and kind of be like girl, there goes your wood again. Like what are you doing? There goes my Southern. Holy crap, I grew up in Tennessee. I guess, like the little, the little voice in my head still has a Southern accent.

Lunden Souza: 33:17

I love it. Yeah, it just popped out, came out and I yeah, so cute, so sweet. I love it. I love the Southern accent. Um, yeah, yeah, turn your wood down, calm it down.

Carey Davidson: 33:29

Yeah, there's just yeah, so let's talk a little bit about your um, your primary wood, in relationship to this whole idea of um over um, like overachieving sometimes or trying working so hard that you just you, you burn out Um. So so this wood energy, it craves momentum and it can, when it's not balanced by the other four elements, see that the only positive outcome is an intense engagement, a big challenge, a big win. It has to be audacious in order for it to be good and positive. Audacious in order for it to be good and positive. That is wood in the most fixed-minded it can possibly be. And so if we understand that about our, you know, for any wood primaries, if you understand that if you overvalue audacious action in any circumstances, you're going towards burnout. It's not the best use of all of your energy and not only does it harm inside your mind and your body, you are actually catalyzing discomfort in all the other four types around you. So if you're supervising, or if you're not just supervising, if you're working in any kind of team or community and it sounds like you are you know both of these. You know the NABA is, it's a community and running these centers in Utah, you're working with lots of people and so each one of us, if we overuse our primary, we create pain in all the other four types and we don't even realize it.

Carey Davidson: 35:19

And so that's what's really special about the five archetypes and different about all these you know from from other systems, is that it's an it's. It's a system of understanding the interrelatedness of all things and how, if I, if I am not balancing out my primary, I am catalyzing pain and disharmonious relationships and communication with anyone who comes into my field, anyone who's working with me on anything, with me on anything, because my big wood energy makes fire feel like they're not smart enough, makes earth feel like I'm not needed, makes metal feel like I always make mistakes and makes water feel like I must not be wise. That's just exactly what happens. You can predict it, it happens every time. And so, knowing that, not only do I help myself be better at everything if I balance out my primary, I'm also bringing harmony to the collective. With every time I choose to balance myself Because think about all the people we collective with. Every time I choose to balance myself, because think about all the people we interact with every day and the domino effect, the ripple effect, like if you're nice to the dude who gave you coffee. Then he's going to go home and be nicer to his kids, who are then going to go back and be able to school the next day and feel more confident about taking that test. And then and then and then it just you know it's be ever expands.

Carey Davidson: 36:58

Um, so what is this Like? How do you know if your primary is wood? How do you know if you're in that strength state where you're catalyzing the best in yourself and others, or if you're off into way out into the reactive space? So the spectrum of strength and stress for wood, the stress state is being addicted to your plan, needing to be the plan that is executed on. Now, the problem with that is that would people have kick-ass plans? You really do. Your gift in this world is to know how to execute. If there's a burning building, you will get us out of that building fast, unscathed. You don't want to count on the earth person to get us out of the building. They'll want to kumbaya and have a little song and dance first. Not the right person, no. So the problem is that our gift is also the thing that has the potential to create the most pain, and so can you sit with it and be okay, like knowing that well, maybe my plan is the best plan. But what if the goal of this interaction in this meeting let's say you're in a staff meeting or you're supervising people or you're in a brainstorming session, whatever it is what if maybe you do have an intuitive sense of what the plan should be? You're, you're creating a situation where no one else gets to learn and no one else gets to grow and no one else gets to try and go outside their comfort zone.

Carey Davidson: 39:00

And how do we build connection? How do we build a thriving community at work or anywhere? It's like bringing everybody together. We we're in it. We're in a situation where we don't know how to connect anymore. We don't know how to connect with ourselves, with each other and the very thing we are good at. We so overdo it and we so over rely on it that we're blinded to the fact that when we overdo it, we harm everyone around us and we don't know why our relationships don't work. Because it's so confusing. I'm just being myself. What do you mean? I can't be myself anymore. So it's so confusing. I'm just being myself. What do you mean? I can't be myself anymore. So it's like we get into that uncomfortable space.

Carey Davidson: 39:38

So you, as a primary would. Your journey to strength in this area that you want to grow in is to recognize when you're addicted to your plan and then be able to move towards the other end of the spectrum and then be able to move towards the other end of the spectrum. Your highest expression of yourself is humility. It's humility around. Like what in the world makes me think that I know everything on the planet and that my plan is the only plan. Like what if? So, if you can go into your own water. Your own water is deep creativity and listening, and so that's like how that looks in a meeting would be.

Carey Davidson: 40:18

I've got this really kick-ass plan in my head, but I really want to nurture this team. I want to build rock stars so that I have sleep assurance, like I. You know I may be the direct, I'm the director and I don't want to have to always be in charge of everything. I don't want everyone to have to call me for the plan. You're building little woods, you're building people who can come up with their own plan, and so you going into your water in that state is here's a challenge everybody I want to hear, I'm really curious to hear how you would solve this. What do you think it would take? What do you think it would take to get us to this stage in four weeks? I want to hear it. And you know what? Being really truly open, the intersection of something new, a newer, broader perspective, or just from a different angle, might make your plan 10 times better. But if we're addicted to our plan, we're not listening, and so that's kind of a like a wood perspective of growth.

Lunden Souza: 41:28

Yeah, and that resonates a lot. Yeah, especially when I think you said something like overuse of the primary. And so now, knowing what I know about the five archetypes, when you asked me what something I was struggling with, whatever, okay, so what my struggle is is like that fear of overuse of the primary, of, like you know, going in and not coming. What did you say? Coming to your water or checking with your water? I don't know what you said specifically, just putting the lingo down and, yes, asking questions to help others maybe come to a better plan or a plan that you were already kind of thinking of, but helping others feel like we all collaboratively came to that effort instead of, I can think of in school or even in college, whatever, when you'd have group stuff, I'd always be like the leader this is the plan, this is how we're going to do it, and I can even when you just said that it's like, then I'm thinking of the other students who just like, went along with it Cause, like what are they? Like I wasn't going to back my word was not going nowhere, you know. Like what are they? Like? I wasn't going to back my wood was not going nowhere, you know? And really, yeah, like I said, over the last six months, being more observant of that, and then also, you know, maybe speaking to some wood primaries out there too, when you do that, and especially with this work in meditation and expansion and growth and community, it's like you're around people with like really fucking good ideas. So it's like you better hear them, because it's like sometimes, actually a lot of times, I'm like, oh, even better, and like here was, here's what I was thinking and how can we like build this even better together? Um, which is what I found too, and that humility piece has been like man, yeah, all this while I thought I had like the best ideas and the best plans and my way, but like there's a lot of really cool people, a lot of really cool brains out there, you know, and perspectives.

Lunden Souza: 43:24

And then when I think about you know growing up and I don't know if our archetypes are and I didn't ask this are like, if they're like embedded in us or if there may be more fostered through our environment, but like I grew up in a family where it was like this is what we believe and anybody else that doesn't believe. It is weird. This is the way you do it because this is the right way, you know. And it was like.

Lunden Souza: 43:44

So then I remember, and especially with my friend Allie her and I have had some of these conversations too, where it was like I took that with me, so then I went out into the world and then you're like why do they do that that way? That's weird, that's not the right way, right, wrong, good, bad. There am a lot of duality in the family that I was raised in and so I think, yeah, whether it's innate and fostered or both, it was like that wood is my primary, but then also, this is the way we do it. We do it the right way, they do it the wrong way. So it was like that was just embedded in me and then, until I realized it, I didn't realize it before and, like you said, we end up hurting people because we're hitting them over the head with our wood.

Carey Davidson: 44:29

Exactly, yeah, yeah, well, to your question, according to the Chinese medicine philosophy, we have one and it remains that we have one primary that flow as we learn our lessons. Like I bet that you know, before you started meditating, your water score was probably a lot lower, and before you learned some of the lessons that you've gone through in your life, maybe your wood was even higher and maybe it's already started to balance itself out a little bit. So you know, but it's you know, the idea of our primary changing is as strange as me saying like, hey, you see the sun in the sky. Well, tomorrow it's going to be a tree. You know it, just it doesn't, it doesn't change, like it's just, it's nature, it's just our primary nature, it's nature, it's just our primary nature.

Carey Davidson: 45:35

But you know the other things, that things like you know, meditation is the highest expression of water and there are, you know, physical, cognitive, behavioral, emotional relationship, you know, and spiritual levels of each of these. And when you're, what I like about the archetypes is that when you're in an intense moment and you need to know what to do, you need your words. It gives you something to do, it gives you a script and your meditation will help create the container and, like soften the wood energy in you so that it's more flexible, rather than like, imagine a tree with no water it just cracks. You know that's what happens to wood with no water, but the elements you know. It shows me a little bit more about exactly what to tell you to do and how to prepare yourself for.

Carey Davidson: 46:37

Every phone conversation, um, every email you write, um, every um, every face to face, every interview you give, I can tell, like, how you're going to um, have a perception of different types of people and who you might likely hire over others, and what to look out for in your thought patterns.

Carey Davidson: 47:00

So one thing, for example your metal and water are lower than your fire and earth, and for you, as a primary wood, that means that you have a stronger desire or a stronger enjoyment of the output, of the creation of something, than you do, of the quiet time spent thinking about it and planning and putting everything in order to make sure that it's right before it goes out, and so that can become an impulse putting everything in order to make sure that it's right before it goes out, and so that can become an impulse. That can become something that you're not aware of consciously. It's just it feels so damn good to make something happen and to create something that you might do without thinking about it, and so this can show up, or like that at the same time, like that thinking might do without thinking about it, and so this can show up, or like that at the same time.

Lunden Souza: 47:56

Like that thinking and doing at the same time, where, like some people will take you know time and I and I aspire to be that way Cause I know that it'll be helpful but to like plan and then refine the plan and then look okay, and then do the tasks and I'm kind of like all right, and I see the benefit and that's what it's going to require for me to execute at a high level, but also like a high loving level let's call it like that with what I have next, like there's no way that I can just go and do like there needs be a think box, you know like a timeout, so, um.

Carey Davidson: 48:40

So what I would invite you to do is um, imagine, like what I love about wood wood people are visionaries Like, if I tell you to imagine a future, you're like I'm on it. So I would, let's say, I don't know what your exact timeline is with these projects, but let's imagine that you've started them and you're like six months in the future, or, you know, nine months in the future. What is your ideal like? How do you wake up? How do you feel every day and what's your ideal kind of situation? Do you have staff? Do you not deal with minutia anymore? How have you structured your day so that you're thriving?

Lunden Souza: 49:26

Yes. So waking up, I'm feeling, yeah, energized, but grounded, or energized and grounded. I often call that like tree vibes. That's what I tell myself. It's like that grounded, rooted energy, but also very expansive heart open, and I love having my time. I don't want to live in a world where I wake up and then work right, so I love that time for myself in the morning, just outside meditation, just like discover, like, okay, how am I going to still protect that but then still have more responsibility?

Lunden Souza: 50:18

No, I don't want to do the day-to-day minutiae, everyday stuff, and I also want to be the leader that isn't afraid to do things with her team when it's time to get things done right. I don't want to be like that's not what I do. If I need to help you out with something and we need to do the nitty gritty together, I want to be game for that. I want to have the energy, and my two words of the year were integrity and endurance. So for me, endurance is like choosing the long path. Right, you wouldn't start off sprinting in a marathon, and I think that's where I am in. That jerking motion of my body. Language is like I want to be in an endurance, but my body somehow is programmed for the sprint and I want to, like you know, balance that out a little bit. I love connecting with people, one-on-one especially, so I see myself, yeah, building yeah, building good personal and professional relationships with those that are on my team and that are working under me, and I know that has a lot less to do with me checking their task list and telling them what to do, as much as it might be a coffee checkup or a walk meeting or just tapping in with how things are going on in life. So I see myself in this vision.

Lunden Souza: 51:32

As you mentioned, yeah, I'm a very visual person and I just am like moving around the centers, checking in on how people are doing. How can I support you? Being more of that emotional, grounded support, but then also knowing what needs to be done. So if something needs to get done or someone does need help, like knowing that is how I want to show up. So that visual is kind of me just like floating through the different centers. I know where everyone kind of is stationed or where they work and how to like love on them.

Lunden Souza: 52:06

I do like feeling, like I love that feeling at the end of the day, when you're just kind of like, oh, and you have had a nice shower I love putting like lavender oils in my shower and like that end of the day where you're like, oh, I accomplished a lot and I'm tired, like, thank you. Physical body, like thank you for you, thank you for. And then also my fitness and my health and wellbeing is very, very important to me. So, yeah, having my exercise and my movement as part of my day, even today, I wasn't sure I was going to have that time, but things moved around and I did, and so I had like 30 minutes to be outside and walk and be in the sun a little bit more, and that was beautiful. So being able to create those moments and pockets of time in nature is, yeah, super powerful and like I don't, I want to preserve those. I don't want to get from the start of the day to that at the end of the day, feeling like I went unconscious. So I do want to feel that momentum, that present momentum. I do want to feel good in my physical body, healthy in my physical body, cognitively focused, and so knowing when boundaries might need to be set or when I need to retreat or take some time for me to restore and recharge, being mindful of those whispers.

Lunden Souza: 53:52

And, yeah, like I said, my words of the year this year are integrity and endurance. And so, for me, integrity is being a woman of my word and doing what I say I'm going to do and if I can't, then communicating that, if I can't deliver on time or something doesn't work out, not being afraid to have the hard conversations, not letting things be sticky or awkward because of something that, for me, is integrity. And then endurance is, like I said, habits and routines that allow this physical body to be in it for the long run. And so, yeah, the feelings of embodying integrity and endurance throughout the day is what I envision, and even just talking about it right now, I just put my whole body and nervous system in a different state than it was before, because I believe in my ability to figure things out. I know there's going to be a moment where I'm going to be like, remember, when you were just like trying to learn and train and all the and it all came together. So I know that will be there.

Lunden Souza: 55:00

But that coil that you kind of mentioned, um, has loosened a little bit since discussing and sharing a bit more about what that day could look and feel like.

Lunden Souza: 55:10

And yeah, the bookends are definitely widened now in terms of when I'll wake up and the end of the day, but we like books, so I'm just going to put some more books in there.

Lunden Souza: 55:25

But it's the time spent executing, the time spent in momentum working and, let's say, doing is going to be, quite frankly, just more hours, and I need to be mindful of that and cognitive of like integrity and endurance or, like you mentioned, tapping into that water before each email, before each interaction, because I can see how things could just get on autopilot and go, go, go and I just, yeah, I just don't want to be in that unconscious position. I want to feel conscious and aware and present, and I also know what it feels like, too, to have well, both ends, but like leaders and bosses who do a really great job of that nourishing, like empowering environment, and then some where you're just like no one wants to do anything for that person. So I think I have really good examples on both ends and I know which end I want to be on and I also know where I've been, and so being conscious and aware of that for me and for the person I want to be is just yeah, exactly what I want and need.

Carey Davidson: 56:35

I love that. I like that life. That's delicious. I'll take one of those. I'm figuring it out.

Lunden Souza: 56:46

It's beautiful. This is our first test week, so I'm figuring it out. It's like a dance, you know, and I'm like what am I? I don't, I'm not, I don't know.

Carey Davidson: 56:54

Yet It'll work itself out as long as I yeah, tap into my water, yeah, so so here's um kind of uh, um, a container or a way to create that um through the five archetypes to make sure it happens. So one thing to remember is the wood mind moves faster than all the others and the wood mind can get frustrated in an, in a relationship and a re in an interaction with a team where you, you have created strategies or you've communicated how it is to get done or how to structure, and other people didn't get it. They need you to slow down and repeat it, maybe 17,000 times, or at least it feels that way, or at least it feels that way, and um and so. So keep in mind, like from an empathy perspective, that um, that where you know we talked about, like, the input elements for you are like metal and water. Those, those are not your comfort zone. The output the thing is already happening, the thing is growing and building. This thing feels much better than all that annoying time being spent with all the details themselves in these companies and in the missions will be the pre-planning. That will, like, irk you a little bit, but it will give you that freedom that you just described, that wood loves freedom. Wood needs freedom in order to feel safe. And so all that life that you described is the ultimate, you know, desire really for a wood leader. So what does that look like? So, in this empathy space, when you delegate or you tell people how structures are supposed to happen, or how you run a meeting, or how you set up file systems or whatever it is, you know that you're you're designing.

Carey Davidson: 59:12

Um. Remember that. Um that other people will? Um will not get it as quickly as you will, and they will need you to communicate it in different ways. And um fire people will get afraid of you. Um. Earth people will feel like you don't want to spend time with them and that they're not really needed. Um. Metal people will? Um will think that you, you think they make mistakes or they don't move too fast. They move sorry, they don't move fast enough. And water people will start to feel powerless because wood is so powerful that it can feel that speed and how quickly you're able to come up with a plan is overbearing for the other four types when they're in stress states and we all know most people are in stress.

Carey Davidson: 1:00:13

Like it's just not everybody meditates and knows how to de-stress in their own ways. So, to have that in mind and workers want to know that you approve of them, that they're doing a good job, so they're going to over-please you and they're going to over-say yes. And they're likely to say yes, I understand when they don't, because wood is very powerful and can be frightening to the other four types. Very powerful and can be frightening to the other four types, and so, um, um, so go into, like, this life that you, that you, you want, requires all that pre-planning that you don't love to do, and the pre-planning includes um, um details of what people can do in order to self measure whether or not they're doing things right, so that they don't have to always come to you.

Carey Davidson: 1:01:16

What happens with a lot of wood leaders is that the staff, um, the staff doesn't feel, believe like they can take risks. They're afraid of risks. Wood is the only one that's not afraid of risks. They're afraid to take risks and do something that's that you're not going to like, and then, when wood is in that coil needing to move fast, they go into anger and that's what can scare the other types and they're like shit, I didn't do it right. And so what happens as a result? They don't ask anymore, they don't ask anymore, and so they do things, and then they do it wrong and there's no communication happening and that's just the dance that happens um with wood leaders, um in um in in teams and companies.

Lunden Souza: 1:02:01

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Lunden Souza: 1:03:11

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Carey Davidson: 1:03:58

Yes, so in a work situation where you have a wood leader, wood needs momentum and they need their team to have momentum and everyone to keep moving. But what happens is, in many cases you're not going to have a lot of wood staff members that are equally wood friendly. Within their own energy, they have different speeds and different needs for engagement, and they can find that wood speed intimidating and scary, and so, rather than slow down and ask you the question for clarity, they're afraid of what it feels like to see you react to being slowed down, and so they avoid the question.

Lunden Souza: 1:04:48

Fear of the way you might react to being slowed down. When you said that, then I felt like there was like a whole timeline of my whole life and then I could think about different moments where, yeah, yeah, that could have definitely. I mean, I don't. I am excited to work on becoming the person that doesn't create environments where people can feel that way, but I have definitely.

Carey Davidson: 1:05:16

It's that, if you, if you look at your scores, your five elements, of assessment results and you see where does your wood fall in in line of the five.

Carey Davidson: 1:05:38

If it's, you know if it's your third, fourth or fifth one. You have an aversion to speed and speed in decision-making. Speed in body movement, speed in planning, coming up with ideas, speed in any level of the way we engage on this planet. If it's your primary, it brings you comfort, and the lack of it is highly uncomfortable. And so this understanding these helps you reveal exactly why relationships go sour and um and why um and what to do about it. Also, so, like, baked in here is not only um, here's what to look out for Lunden, um, but also, you know, if you were to say like, okay, I've got one person who does this, and this always happens when we're together I can tell you exactly how to engage with that person so that you both engage with a growth mindset and empathy every time you you interact. So, um, but that's kind of like what to look out for in building this life that you want to live as a leader in these two spaces at the same time without going into burnout.

Lunden Souza: 1:07:01

Yes, Because burnout is just not fun and I just, yeah, I want to have fun and feel good throughout this experience, in a way where I don't want to say I didn't have fun before, I just, yeah, didn't stop and smell the roses, for lack of better terms. It was just like we're going and like freight train has been moving and we don't take breaks unless our physical body like forces us to, and so just wanting to do better, I think that's all we can do is learn and grow and do things better the next time. You know, should we get the next opportunity and I can see how this would be so helpful and I'm sure this happens a lot in your, with your client race or practice for couples to do this, for couples to learn their archetypes and, you know, figure out how to navigate a better relationship, better communication, better understanding, because sometimes we don't see it from any other perspective other than our own and we're thinking why is this person this way or how? Yeah, I can see how this would be such a fun activity. I think, well, at least in my model of the world, it would be fun to do this in a relationship, absolutely, but maybe, yeah, anyone listening, whether it's even and I think too, even within our teams, like relationships within teams, romantic relationships. It's just so helpful to learn more about our own selves.

Lunden Souza: 1:08:27

But then, when we can do it in a partnership and something that feels safe, or even with my friend Allie, I'm so excited actually to call her and text her after our conversation and just like, oh, yeah, and especially people you have history with where it's like, yeah, remember when, and to laugh at it a little bit, like you mentioned, it's, it's it.

Lunden Souza: 1:08:50

I mean, I think it's playful, I think this stuff is information and it can be so helpful, um, to dive in and discuss with, with others that we're in contact with, that we're in relationship with Um, and then also to use it as something to just have your own like internal spidey senses for yourself and others too, to like, yeah, understand, if you know, I don't, I don't want it to be that what you mentioned of people being afraid of stopping the momentum. I want them to be excited, to like step on board and go at a pace that's maybe a little bit of a stretch for them than they're used to, but like still feels right, you know, for them. And um, yeah, I'm really excited about this, yeah.

Carey Davidson: 1:09:34

Yeah, I'm glad and you're right, it's amazing for couples, um, it's amazing for um, for people who work together to understand each other, and, um, it gives you a deeper empathy, like an instant empathy, and and a very specific path for words to say and things to do in those hot button moments when you're more likely to go into your comfort zone and do the thing that feels good for you but we don't realize causes pain for everyone around us.

Lunden Souza: 1:10:09

Yeah, yeah, so good. Yeah, I really I'm so grateful. This was so insightful and I think everyone listening as you went through the different archetypes and the different you know there's. I think I love listening to things like this too, as an avid podcast listener, where it just inspires you to learn more about you, and so I really know that those listening and feel free to contact us, those listening and reach out to us and let us know, because I love those moments where you listen and you look things in a different way.

Lunden Souza: 1:10:42

And now I'm like, okay, I really want to dive into this for myself. I want to learn more about me through these five archetypes. And it goes beyond, of course, just our conversation, it goes into the day-to-day, and so I hope I'm grateful to you because I know that those listening feel more inspired to learn more about themselves and take their archetype quiz and figure out, kind of. And I love what you said, too, about it's like it's just information until you have a problem that you get to infuse this information into, and so I'm assuming that a lot of those resources are available in your book. Where can people learn more from you?

Carey Davidson: 1:11:23

and that type of thing. Yeah, so definitely in the book. And I have a lot of blogs, a lot of little videos on YouTube and even on our Instagram, these little quick blurbs that give some information. And I do one-on-one coaching and I do consulting for companies as well, and we're about to launch a do-it-yourself digital curriculum where people will get two text messages a day that are customized by their primary element, that give them those little reminders in the morning, like if you're wood, it would say, like Lunden, notice when you're moving too fast today, and then at the end of the day it gives you a neuroplasticity activity that balances out that need in the mind for speed, but you don't know that it's doing it. It's not like exposure therapy, like sit down, Lunden, don't move. No, it's like either fire, earth, metal or water tiny little activities that strengthen the mind. So, yeah, fun stuff.

Lunden Souza: 1:12:41

I love that, customized based on your archetype, to give you, like the bookends, a little oomph in the start of your day and some ways to balance things out at the end of the day Genius. I'm super excited for when that's available. I think that will really be. I mean, it's great to have something you can send out to everybody. But to be specific, based on a person's structure within their archetypes, I think is just yeah, so valuable. And yeah, where can people connect with you? I know you mentioned you had, um, a little freebie offer that you wanted to share with us. So share that with us too.

Carey Davidson: 1:13:16

I know I'm offering it to fans of Lunden Souza um, a free stuck finder session for 15 minutes. Um, we will talk about, um, your biggest burning question and compare it to your assessment results and I will identify for you where you're stuck and kind of what needs to, what needs to shift for you in order to move forward through that um obstacle or perceived obstacle? Um and um yeah, you can find me on my website, carey davidson. com and um, there's a contact form there. And um, yeah, and you can do what Lunden did.

Lunden Souza: 1:14:06

You can hit me up in the in the Instagram, in the Instagram Instagram PMs. Yeah, I just slid right into your DMs, Carey. I didn't ask you to want to date or ask you to come on my podcast, either way.

Lunden Souza: 1:14:16

I love Instagram for that. I mean I just, yeah, I think there can be. I mean, there's always both sides of the coins to you know how we use them, but I just have loved the connections through Instagram, including ours. All the links that Carey mentioned I'll put in the description. Wherever you're listening to this podcast, you can find the description and show notes. If you're watching this on YouTube, you can find it in the description as well. Connect with Carey, get her book, find out your archetypes and, yeah, just lean into learning more about you. I think sometimes people can feel scared and exposed when they start learning these types of things, but it's such powerful information for us to connect even deeper with ourselves and others. And, yeah, and just connect with Carey, figure that out, and thank you so much for your time.

Lunden Souza: 1:15:09

I appreciate you so much Thank you and share this with a friend. I'm only one person and with your help, we can really spread the message of self-love and sweat and change more lives all around the world. I'm Lunden Souza, reminding you that you deserve a life full of passion, presence and purpose, fueled by self-love and sweat. This podcast is a Hitspot. Austria production.