Owning Your Hot Mess & Letting Go Of Perfect with Kristin Birdwell

This episode highlights the power of embracing messiness in self-discovery and growth, exploring how emotional experiences tied to womanhood and productivity shape our stories and foster authentic connections.

 Kristin Birdwell, a best-selling author, podcast host, and healer, turned her experiences with abuse, loss, and addiction into a powerful journey of healing and transformation. Through storytelling, tantra, memoir writing, psychedelics, and somatic practices, she helps others embrace their light and express their authentic selves. 

Timestamps to help you navigate this episode:
0:00 Intro
0:24 FREE Self Love & Sweat MONTHLY Calendar
11:40 Redefining Rest Across Generations
21:42 Emotional Freedom as a Superpower
31:24 Breaking Free from the 'Good Girl' Image
40:50 Finding Your Voice Through Writing
50:12 Embracing Synchronicity in Creativity

Connect with Kristin:
https://www.kristinbirdwell.com/
IG: @kristinbirdwell_
FB: https://www.facebook.com/cocreatewithkristin
YT: https://www.youtube.com/@kristinbirdwell
YT: https://www.youtube.com/@SexDrugsSoul

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 0:24 FREE Self Love & Sweat MONTHLY Calendar
• 11:40 Redefining Rest Across Generations
• 21:42 Emotional Freedom as a Superpower
• 31:24 Breaking Free from the 'Good Girl' Image
• 40:50 Finding Your Voice as a Through Writing
• 50:12 Embracing Synchronicity in Creativity

Transcript

Lunden Souza: 0:00

Welcome to Self Love and Sweat the podcast, the place where you'll get inspired to live your life unapologetically, embrace your perfect imperfections and do what sets your soul on fire. I'm your host, Lunden Souza. Hey, before we jump into this episode, I just want to make sure that you get all the free things possible, if you haven't already. You need to get your self-love and sweat free monthly life coaching calendar. Honestly, the way to experience deep change in your life is by doing small little things over time, and so that's what you'll find in this free calendar. You can get it by going to lifelikelunden. com/calendar. Get yours for free and let's get into today's episode. Hey, girlfriend

Kristin Birdwell: 1:02

How's it going? It's going. How are you feeling? I am feeling alive. Earlier this morning I was having some weird eye glitch thing. It was just like twitching. I'm like what's going on here? But I'm feeling good. I'm excited to chat with you about all things messy and lean into that and go where we need to go.

Lunden Souza: 1:27

Yeah, same Eye glitch.

Kristin Birdwell: 1:30

Yeah, it was weird. I was trying to do like some like eyeliner, not eyeliner mascara and I'm like why? It's like it was weird. It had like a little like kind of ethereal, sparkly thing in the corner of my eye. I'm like, what is this? So I put some eye drops in. I'm like, well, we're going to roll with it today.

Lunden Souza: 1:55

Right, I guess for the video where I glitch might be apparent. It's not, but at least you don't need your eyes to talk about the mess today.

Kristin Birdwell: 2:04

I'm like am I starting to see spirits now too? I'm like what is this? What's happening?

Lunden Souza: 2:12

We are on the winter solstice, so I'm like hmm, is today the first day of the winter solstice? No, it's the 21st. Yeah today's the 21st. Yeah, I had to look down at my calendar at the bottom of my computer screen to be like what day is it?

Kristin Birdwell: 2:30

Where are we at? Yeah, you get a pass.

Lunden Souza: 2:33

Well, I'm so excited to talk with you today. I've met you in person, we've chatted a little bit person.

Lunden Souza: 2:48

We've chatted a little bit. I don't know a ton about you. I know I feel drawn and connected to you and was really excited. I know we wanted to record last weekend and we had to move some things around and here we are, but we were messaging in our NABA community about messy and being messy and embracing the mess, and I think both of us without TMI, but I don't really care we're both in the season of our cycle of which it can feel a little bit messier, and so we both showed up anyways and we were like yep, we're synced up and let's press record and let's use it for both of our podcasts, so then we don't have to record twice and go to that.

Kristin Birdwell: 3:30

You know, and I'm totally going to lean into that, you know there's some like ancient wisdom for women that when they're on their cycle that I feel like I get more, maybe like downloads or intuitive or inspirational, like ideas. I do crave more rest during that time.

Kristin Birdwell: 3:46

but I am like totally wanted to honor our commitment and do this too. Um, so I think there's like definitely something sacred and like and like for me like speaking of being messy, it's one of the things of being messy, um, and just honoring that and like if and for a long time I had to even shift my relationship around that because I think it was like some there's some shame, or you know, I remember feeling embarrassed, like if my mom told my grandma and stuff. Then when, even when I got my period, um, and so it's like I really coming to honor and like treat that as sacred and like honor the cycles of being a woman versus like it being something to be afraid of or shamed, or if my emotions are heightened I know I get more, even it seems more sensitive around the certain times, like luteal and then the actual bleed too. I don't know if you feel that way.

Lunden Souza: 4:38

Yeah, I think for a long time I didn't embrace the different phases of our cycle and the different seasons that we as women experience throughout a monthly cycle and my background is in fitness and that was like my last lifetime of a career and what I leaned into and was a big chunk of my life, what I leaned into and was a big chunk of my life, and I remember feeling, like you said, the guilt and the shame or the frustration around being tired and being a little bit more in need of rest and maybe stretching and chilling, and I always felt like, oh, you just got to keep going. And I remember we didn't think we were.

Lunden Souza: 5:26

Yeah, I didn't think we were going to start it on this topic, but I love it, but I remember when I was personal training yeah, a long time ago, over 10 years ago and I had this one client who would often cancel her sessions when she was on her period. And now I'm like, oh, get it, sister. Then in my head the story was like okay, what do you mean? You're on your period. This was our commitment Do your workout, just work through it, take some Advil and let's go. And now it's definitely not that way. If I need more time for rest, I track my cycle. I use the flow app. So I'm always checking it every day, logging my symptoms, um, and just noticing where I'm at, even proactively. Like you know, those few days leading up to my cycle and the first couple of days, like that five to seven day window, is just like pump the brakes time a little bit in a lot of ways, you know feels better.

Kristin Birdwell: 6:29

Totally I've leaned into like what workouts during different time periods of my cycle, like if I'm in, you know if I'm in ovulation or if I'm in like one of the the other before luteal, I'm like, okay, I, I I'm into hit and I'm into like more energy. But once it starts to get later, I'm like, okay, I want a little more yoga, I want a little more walking outside or just like some rest or nature. And then sometimes I just want like freaking horizontal time and just rest and journal on a book. But same for you, like you know, and I feel like in our culture too, there's just like so much like go, go, go, do, do, do, go, go, go, do, do, do. Your worth is around your productivity and that's really something that you know it's served me in so many different time periods in my life of like getting things done and accomplishments but at the same time like kind of distancing myself from that and being in leaning into I'm worthy whether I do X, y, z or not.

Kristin Birdwell: 7:21

Um and so just kind of it's like I'm having this shift and like I honor and I'm grateful for the time periods in my life where it was like, okay, I needed to do these things to feel loved, to feel accepted, to get attention from my parents or whatever it was, or be a good human or an achieving adult in the world. But now it's like, no, actually I'm worthy without it. I still have like lots of dreams and things I want to get done, but how can I do this in a way that like honors the truth of my present moment? And you know, my body takes care of it and that sort of thing too.

Lunden Souza: 7:55

Mm-hmm and beyond, exercise as well.

Lunden Souza: 7:59

You know, as a woman in leadership and having multiple businesses, I know that you're holding the fort down too, learning the different phases of our cycle, and when it feels good to be creative, when it feels good to be more, line it up, knock it down, get shit done.

Lunden Souza: 8:19

When you're in that phase where I don't want to say the debate's not the word, that I'm thinking of negotiations being more, you know, in that follicular phase, ovulation where it's like, okay, those are when I want to have the tough conversations and when it makes sense to be more in that, let's say, yeah, masculine energy of talking about the tough things, money, all that kind of stuff versus later on in my cycle where it might be a little bit more, which I love, which I love, but I always wondered why can't I do this sometimes, but not.

Lunden Souza: 9:02

And as I leaned into more of the different phases of my cycle, I'm starting to learn when to schedule certain things and when not. And I also have a lot of women on my team so honoring them and being like, hey, I know that we're going to be doing this wave together. So if you need something or if it's a hard day, feel free to communicate that with me. It's not too much information. It's good if you're having a moment of being tired or low energy, you know, and then there'll be times where I'm sure you feel this too where we feel more productive and it's like a day is like getting shit done.

Kristin Birdwell: 9:35

Yeah.

Lunden Souza: 9:36

That feels so good.

Kristin Birdwell: 9:37

For sure. And like now, in this phase of like the next, you know, three to seven days it's I very much lean into, okay, what intuitive insights are coming in, or like what, what could I like create? There's a lot of creativity in that space too. I've been playing with like laying in the fertile void and like, because I, towards the end of the year, it comes up that I, you know, I feel a little bit more burnout. I'm like how can I nourish myself and get ready for the year but also honor the season too?

Kristin Birdwell: 10:11

and lean into and sitting in the fertile void Because I love Abraham Hicks and I think you do too I've heard some places where you listen to things in the morning, and some of the things that I listened to recently was like doing nothing is doing something, and that is getting in receptive mode to. You know, help bring in some of the things that are already in your vortex, and I'm like I needed to hear that and I just needed to sit and journal or just like lay there and not do anything until something comes up and like inspires me anything until something comes up and like inspires me.

Lunden Souza: 10:47

Yeah, like not looking in our outer world, but going within. Yeah, I listened to Abraham Hicks. Pretty much every morning when I wake up she has like these little under 15 minute cartoon, cartoony videos that ar e on YouTube and I put that on whichever one YouTube's algorithm decides to pop up. Right, because I listen to her so much. There's always one that's there and I'm like that's the one, that's the one I need to listen to. But yeah, growing up with the conditioning of more is more and doing is better, and I remember being in college, going to school full time, working seven days a week, and telling my grandpa aren't you so proud of me? I work seven days a week and I'm going to school full-time. I wasn't like a straight A college student, but A's and B's was doing really well and I remember holding that as a trophy.

Lunden Souza: 11:40

But it was interesting because I have a group chat with my family and my niece and my brother and my niece's mom and we always are just talking. It's pretty much just all about my niece Pictures, what she's up to, updates from school, just all the things. And she said something where she was like yeah, mom, I don't want to go to that today. It was like a Christmas parade. I just need to stay home and rest. I just want to rest. And I was like, yes, I love that. And I wrote in the chat. I was like, yes, I love that she knows what she wants and needs. I love that in her generation, where she's out in our family line, that's available to her, because for us it wasn't. It was just like let's go line it up, knock it down, wake up Saturday, do your chores, get things done, don't be lazy, get to work. And I just love that. She knows that at the wise age of six years old. That is incredible, I love it.

Kristin Birdwell: 12:43

What a good Like, what a good role model and just like to have her understanding of what she needs and wants to thrive at that age. It kind of reminds me of a story that came up for me recently and interesting. So like yesterday was my, it would have been my dad's 71st birthday and he died in 2013.

Kristin Birdwell: 13:07

And there's been a lot of like interesting experiences, like whether it was with plant medicine, psychedelics, with ketamine therapy. There are a lot of different things. But I say you mentioned NABA, like I'm doing a core, a course in there and I say it's going to be doing about writing and writing a type of you're making a course I thought you meant you were doing one.

Kristin Birdwell: 13:35

Okay, yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, I know but and so, anyways, it's like basically the what I'm saying, um, I had always kind of similar to you. You know, I felt like I, if I get that A's, I A's on a roll, then, um, my dad loves and accept me. I got money. It was like, uh, you know, bonus or or something like that. And so I point out this little sheet, this little um, I gotta, I gotta just show you, cause it's like so special for me, um, but it's a special like little group, that of questions that my dad did and, um, I'm telling you that, uh, stories basically have the um, the power to incredible, um, impact and trans, um, I can't think of the word right now.

Kristin Birdwell: 14:27

Cover time, like, okay, basically, he gave me this freaking. I can't think right now I'm having like such a big heart and brain fart right now. Jesus, wow, talk about some like brain farts, okay, so, anyway, I had like my whole entire life thought that I had to act in like this, and so I found that like I was like shopping and um, or like perusing through this like book, um, and the book says, for those of you listening, it's a book that says my dad right yeah.

Kristin Birdwell: 15:07

It says, like my dad, his stories, his words, and I had always wanted his story, to know more about him. He was like, very reserved, but he gave me this and it was one of the best gifts that I've ever owned. It's probably like one of my most private and prized possessions. Like what the hell is going on with me? My eye and now my the eye quits Talking about messy. I feel messy right now.

Lunden Souza: 15:35

Okay, Messy in the moment. Anyway, I'm here and I'm doing it anyway.

Kristin Birdwell: 15:40

I love you, dad, anyway, okay, so basically it talks about asking him one of the best things in his life, that he was like the most proud of his life, and um, and he basically said that, um, it was the day that you were, that you were born, that you and your dad or you and your brother were born, and I take that as like wow, like my whole life I was working for him to be proud of me, but it was something that I didn't have to earn.

Kristin Birdwell: 16:08

And so, like this little book was so healing and like it just showed how stories can transcend time basically Because, like it did, I didn't have that reaction when I first read this, like however many years ago, like 11 years ago, but today or like a month or two ago, I was like bawling when I read it. This, like however many years ago, like 11 years ago, but today or like a month or two ago, I was like bawling when I read it. I was like it was such a big epiphany, just like I didn't have to earn it, versus like what I thought you know before, and I was like, oh, wow, that's a good way for me to, you know, move forward.

Lunden Souza: 16:39

Yeah, you existing was the proudest moment, like you, being here was all the enoughness that could ever been needed. Did he make this book for you, leading to the end of his life? Did he already make it? I don't know all of that story Feel free to share whatever you want.

Kristin Birdwell: 17:00

No, I think it's beautiful because I gave him the book, because I'm like you're going to tell me one way or another, I'm going to find out these stories, some of your life, what's going on because he was like way more reserved and so I gave him this book and then he took about six months and then he gave it to me for my birthday in like 2012.

Kristin Birdwell: 17:21

And then you know the uh, less than a year later he died, but it was just so like pivotal um to have that and like to have like this healing little book that I've read so many times and, to be honest, like you know, I was ready to read it, but I made it as a Christmas present one year for my brother Um, but he still hasn't read the whole entire thing yet and it's just like more sensitive and you know, whenever he's ready to to go through that and read it and and feel those feelings and emotions that can feel so messy that I have completely known for so long in my life, when you know he will be ready, when he's ready, and that's something that I've had to learn is that I can't force someone to be ready or to feel a certain way or that sort of thing. It's like all on their own certain timeline.

Lunden Souza: 18:08

Yeah, there's the timing and what you're ready for. There's the timing and what others are ready for, and either way, the story is there, right, like you said, one way or another, I'm going to get it out of you, dad, or you're going to tell me those things, and maybe he didn't have the words or the availability of having the dialogue and conversation wasn't how that story was supposed to come out. It was supposed to be like you said. It took him six months to write through it and you've decided to go through it.

Lunden Souza: 18:40

Maybe your brother not yet, but that's so beautiful, and I've been getting the targeted ads on Instagram for my mom's store. It's called Mom Tell Me your Story and Dad Tell Me your Story, and I think those are so cool because we learn so much about ourselves now when we learn the stories of those before us, like all of our ancestors, whether it's our parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, and we get to see, maybe, where our mess or, like I like to call it, masterpiece, came from, or like were there any things that you learned from your dad's story that helped you like unpack or, um, untighten some of the knots that were in your life?

Kristin Birdwell: 19:37

You know, maybe not necessarily from the book, um, definitely from learning about my grandfather, though. He died very early. I never met him in person. He kind of had a violent death. My dad was only 14 whenever he died. But I chatted with my grandmother. My grandmother's still alive and I feel so lucky and blessed that she's 94, still with it, still drives, is open to sharing these different aspects and there's a big piece For a long time.

Kristin Birdwell: 20:05

Like I, I have a little witchiness in me and for a long time I didn't want to own it or take ownership because I didn't want people to think I was crazy, and really for me that felt like I'm intuitive, I can read situations. Good, maybe that's a combination of trauma, maybe that's a combination of, you know, hyper independence or whatever, and but anyway, um, I learned that he had actually gone to, like um different psychological facilities, um, for you know what they? I don't know exactly what his diagnosis was, but I think that he could feel, um and had a deep sensitivity, um, or felt strong emotions in certain ways, and back then, like they didn't really know how to handle it or what the best treatment option was. So I know he did like some um, what is it? Shock treatment, therapy, and um, and so I'm like luckily I don't have to do that today, but like it just kind of showed me that he was like also very emotional, um, and maybe he didn't handle it in all the appropriate ways or like healthy, conscious conversations or stuff like that, or didn't know how to recognize or feel the emotions or get permission or that sort of thing.

Kristin Birdwell: 21:12

But I definitely resonate with him feeling super emotional and I kind of definitely believe that one of my greatest superpowers is sensitivity, but it can also be one of the biggest challenging things to do is like feeling so deeply. It's something that I numbed for a long time. It's definitely part of the piece or element that I resonate with. Feeling messy sometimes and that's what I've leaned into a little bit recently is that I can show up messy or when I feel emotional, I can demonstrate and have like tears online, like that's okay and in fact I feel like it gives permission for other people to be emotion. There was a call also that Austin, I think, mentioned, on a Nava call, which I love the community and I'm so grateful that, like we, met through this community, like it's so cool.

Lunden Souza: 22:00

Same If all that came out of it was that I met the people that I have met. Like if all of it disappeared tomorrow not that it will, you know, it's going to the moon but like that is the best part the people I've met and us embracing that mess together.

Kristin Birdwell: 22:17

For sure. And, like he mentioned, you know that the achievements and all that stuff help inspire people, Like, whether it's, you know, creating this business or coaching or having a podcast or, um, you know, and inspiring something or another, a book, whatever it is but it's like so the mess or the humanness that actually like creates the relatability. Um and that is just so beautiful, like meeting people on, like you know, connectivity levels and um, and that we're all in this together, versus like kind of like a pedestal or something similar like that.

Kristin Birdwell: 22:50

And so I just love that perspective too.

Lunden Souza: 22:53

Yeah, yeah, the humanness, which is the full spectrum of emotions and feels and highs and lows or whatever you want to call it. And I feel like and I know we're kind of both in that season of unapologetically expressing the mess and metabolizing the mess within our own spiritual wellbeing and stuff, and there's an element of safety that I believe needs to be there. Yeah, I just got full body goosebumps when I said that that needs to be there in order to express the mess, because I moved to Utah a year and a half ago. Before that I was back in California because COVID happened. Before that I was in Austria, stuck in my apartment, couldn't leave, and then before that was working in a position where there was no time for feels. I was in a different country every single week. I was the face of the company.

Lunden Souza: 24:02

I remember having a conversation with my friend Sylvia she was on TV a lot too, so was I that we couldn't cry because if we cried the next day our eyes would be puffy. And then you got to go on TV. We didn't know. And I need to talk with her about this again because we talked about it about how it's like yeah, there's emotions there to express, but as soon as we unleash the sprinklers, what do you do? And it's action time, and I was on camera every single day for seven years, like every single day.

Lunden Souza: 24:36

And so, anyways, now recently being in Utah for over a year, feeling so safe, physically, emotionally, financially, spiritually, right, and then I've been doing Dr Erin Pollinger's manifesting magic course that she did and I laughed because I told her I'm like, erin, that shit's like Jumanji, like you cannot not finish it. So, anyways, in this course you're working with the womb space and the feminine and expressing all parts of that right. We think feminine energy is like loving and nurturing and kind it is, but there's also rage and there's warrior spirit in that and there is lioness energy. And so over the last month or so, especially after finishing the Push Catch Detox, I was talking with Austin and I was like I'm not sure if I feel good, I just unleashed a lot. But now I'm realizing like, oh, that's because for the first time in a long time, you feel safe.

Lunden Souza: 25:42

You have the time to land. I love that spirit about me of being go, go, go and being determined. I am relentless and tenacious. I'll identify with those words, but I've also been empowered to pump the brakes a little bit too. When we're in that place of safety, I feel like that's where the masterpiece loves to be, and that's been wild.

Kristin Birdwell: 26:12

I love that and I love that. The safe, that you have pinpointed the safety element too. Have there been any messier rageful practices that help you kind of unleash it, since that safety is there?

Lunden Souza: 26:29

Yeah, expressing it you know like crying hysterically, screaming, crawling on the ground, moving in a very I love it. Yes, like in my. I mean yeah, I mean whatever Fly on the wall would know what's going on in here. Whatever, I'm not filming myself and posting that on social media.

Kristin Birdwell: 26:54

No, you don't have to, it's for you.

Lunden Souza: 26:55

Yeah, or like there's been times where, after a long day of leading my team, I come in and I just collapse to the ground and sob and mourn and moan and it's like there's a part of me, like you said, that I had numbed for so long and I also think too, it was unconscious. It was like that door was shut and locked but I didn't even know where that door was. Then you start to know where that door is and then you're kind of avoiding it or opening it just a little bit and peeking in real quick and then shutting the door. But now I just feel like, yeah, that needs to come up, that needs to be expressed. And I can't remember who it was.

Lunden Souza: 27:45

A friend of mine, anyways, was sad and I had mentioned to my mom like, oh, yeah, I'm going to go spend time with this friend because they're sad. And she was like oh, why are they sad? And I was like because they're sad, I don't know. I didn't ask why they were sad. Sadness sometimes has to come up and I'm going to go hold space for that person while they're sad. It didn't occur to me.

Lunden Souza: 28:10

Just asking people what they do doesn't really occur to me. It just to me is very surface, but I realize, and it's nobody's fault, or it's not my mom's fault, whatever but it's like we never ask or have concern when someone's happy or joyful or all good and everything's fine. But why does it have to be something's wrong or seen as like a bad thing, that you're sad or uncomfortable or something's going on? I didn't even think to ask the person oh, you're sad, cool, I'll be there. What do you need? You want to talk about it? You want to hug? Do you just want to be sad? You know, but now I'm really seeing this, the place that all the emotions have to take.

Kristin Birdwell: 28:54

I think that's so important.

Kristin Birdwell: 28:55

I love that you're doing it for yourself too.

Kristin Birdwell: 28:56

It's like you don't have to like I mean, there's some people I know that do record like the the rage rituals or something, and and to me it's like you know, if it's being curious where that's coming from, you know, or for them like, but I also love that you're keeping it sacred and honoring that for yourself. I did something recently I'm part of, like this pleasure priestess group and she had a guest teacher come in and we did a rage ritual and, um, so one of the things is like a song of rage where we're like you know, screaming either into a pillow or, like you know, humping a pillow, or bashing a pillow, you know, into the bed or whatever it is, or like punching or all these things. You know the air, like all those things. And then it was a song of grief and then, and like a reeling allow us to feel that as well and then it was like, and then we tapped into like a sensuality. So there was like a song of like, sensual, so like moving from that I'm like, wow, it was very empowering.

Kristin Birdwell: 29:52

But I just think that you know, there's so much also conditioning around, or or especially about, about being a woman, right, being a good girl, or things like that and like for me, I know for part of my journey recently, I had defaulted like to being, or being some of that more good girl, because I knew that was accepted, loved and all those things, and so it actually produced a lot of anxiety.

Kristin Birdwell: 30:15

Um so much so anxiety, um, thought patterns that didn't feel like me so much, where I was, like you know, pulling into my garage and like having like super, like suicidal ideation type of thoughts. I'm like what is this? This is not like I got to get some help. And so I, you know, saw it therapy. I thought I saw it ketamine assisted therapy, which helps, like you know, neural pathways and all that jazz, totally like life-changing experience.

Kristin Birdwell: 30:41

And then so one session, or after one session, or doing an integration session with my therapist, she was like do you think that part of your anxiety could have been from repressing your wild woman? And it just like clicked. I was like, oh snap, like I, I totally was repressing this, this part of me, and like how, and then that's, and that's also a part of I guess. Like you know, in a way I got to switch the viewpoint of like this anxiety is bad to like this it's my body showing me how I can show up, or showing it's like pulling, like listen to me please. I am wanting to be expressed in some way form or fashion, like you are not being your most authentic self type of thing. And so how are?

Kristin Birdwell: 31:24

we going to get you to like to be that again? Um, cause I, you know, fallen back into a typical pattern, like whether it was like with offerings that I was offering the world, you know different relationships, that sort of thing. Um, and so I would say, like there's so much condition around being that good girl and I'm not a good girl I can be. I can still be kind and still be wild or have those things kind of like. I can be messy and kind and wild or unapologetic, those sorts of things like conditioning of you know not wanting to upset people or have certain hard conversations, or that you know she'll lose love or something, or has to show up in a certain manner.

Kristin Birdwell: 32:10

And that's shifted because we've had conversations or opportunities to have conversations. So you know, in some ways, like my own journey has also repaired our relationship or inspired her to have those difficult conversations.

Lunden Souza: 32:23

Yeah, to see what that looks like or what that could be. You get to be an example and, yeah, oftentimes those emotions are there to teach us something and to tell us something, but we've been taught. Like you said, you got to be a good girl, which means have it all together and have a smile and calm down a little bit, or calm down the emotions.

Kristin Birdwell: 32:49

You're too much, you're not enough.

Lunden Souza: 32:58

You got to be like this way, you got to be this. There's so much I know and I really feel like I'm in a season of yeah, surrender and trust, whatever's coming up, whatever that next step might be. I started meditating with Dr Joe in 2018. And I did it because I knew that meditation was good for you. I didn't do it because I thought it would get rid of these anxious feelings. I didn't really make that connection, thought it would like get rid of these anxious feelings. I didn't really make that connection right. So, anyways, I used to have these really big anxiety attacks where my brain and body would just like lose it and I'd be in bed all day and it would happen, you know, maybe a couple times a month, whatever. And then it started to go down, like they started to go away, and I remember being like, yes, like I conquered this right. Well, lo and behold, come to safety and security in Utah.

Lunden Souza: 33:55

A couple months ago, I had another one and I remember thinking like, oh, what am I doing wrong that this is coming back? But I was talking to a friend of mine who was on the phone with me while I was having this anxiety attack and was just like breathe through it, like big in it. We were just like together in that, probably one of the most beautiful, sacred experiences with that person. And then he goes what is it trying to tell you? Talk to it. What is it trying to tell you? And it was like that you don't need to do so much, that you don't need to do everything. That's not about who you are. You're Lunden, you can just be and be okay.

Lunden Souza: 34:37

And I'm laying in my bed talking to the anxiety, having the dialogue, and after that, and even right in this moment, talking to you, I was like wait, the goal was to not get rid of the anxiety. The goal is to understand it and to talk to it and to come nose to nose with it and to have that be okay and to get the wisdom that you need from that, because you get wisdom from joyful, amazing moments. You also get wisdom when things are dark and scary and uncomfortable, and that's where I'm at now is messy is good, as long as you're not picking up your shit and throwing it at someone else, right? As long as you're not smearing your mess over someone else, right, like you know, as long as you're not smearing your mess over someone else, and I think that's where the the place that I'm at and what I'm excited about is like we all have a mess, but we try to blame someone. We try to be like well, I'm mad, who made me mad? I'm sad, who made me sad, you know, but it's actually like I'm sad, who made me sad? But it's actually like no, mad and sad are part of it.

Lunden Souza: 35:46

We have this beautiful wheel of emotions and instead of blaming something outside of us for causing it, we're not taught this, though, right, because I wish there was a class on talking to your emotions and understand gosh, that would have been my favorite class. But being able to be like okay, it's not about who did what to me in order for me to feel this type of way. It's like this chemical concoction of this feeling and emotion is here. What is it trying to teach me? And I think one time I heard it was like a pastor talking about like if you don't. How did he say it? Like if you don't. I forget how he phrased it, but it's like, basically, like don't bleed on someone who never cut you. It's okay to be messy and have a wound and be bloody, but it's not somebody else's job to fix it or sew you up and don't bring that mess to the next thing and bleed all over them. You know, and I I love that.

Kristin Birdwell: 36:47

You know that what that reminds me of is, as you're speaking, is like, yeah, the moment if we're and I've totally, like you, made me so mad before and you know, and maybe that's like me to look at the trigger, you know, as my teacher and that sort of thing but yeah, I feel like the moment that we do that, it's kind of like pointing the blame or it's like stepping into a victimhood mentality versus, like that, taking personal responsibility of how we're feeling. Because I feel like we can still be messy, we can honor our emotions and we can also honor other people's boundaries, we can be respectful, we can be kind and that sort of thing. And also it's like, hey, if you need a little space for me, sometimes I'm like I just need a little little distance, a little time to really like get to how I feel. I don't want to ever, I don't want to say anything, you know, impulsively that hurts someone feelings or that isn't like you know, my deepest truth of the moment. Like maybe I need to go journal something or just like sit with myself and my emotions for a second and I can now voice that, versus just like, peace, I'm gone, and so I think that that's just kind of like the victimhood and personal responsibility, because I think there's so much power in taking ownership and having that personal responsibility.

Kristin Birdwell: 37:58

But there is a lot of responsibility. There's a lot of freedom, because I believe that's how we start to co-create our lives and the lives that we want, but it is also a lot of responsibility. There's a lot of freedom because I believe that's how we start to co-create our lives and the lives that we want. Um, but it is also a lot of responsibility to say that like, okay, I am the common denominator in all of my relationships and all of my successes and all of my failures. Like when I showed up, when I didn't show up, it was the common denominator was me. And so, like I learned that whenever I noticed a pattern and certain characteristics that I was dating different people and I was like, wait a second, it's like this in a different form or this in a form, but the common denominator is me. So I got to get real with myself and ask myself questions and that sort of thing too.

Lunden Souza: 38:39

Yeah, what are you attracting? And I love the word responsibility. I love words in general because I love communication and that's what I coach on. But responsibility is response ability. Your ability to respond Love that and so, yeah, it's your responsibility. But you also have that response ability and instead of reacting or, like you said, you made me mad or all the things.

Lunden Souza: 39:04

And even though I coach on this stuff, I make mistakes all the time. Right, like, I ask for do-overs, I apologize. And that's kind of where the conversation with you and I started, where we were like, yeah, and even Jen Reno, who is one of our mutual friends in our Nava community, we're talking after this for the podcast. But she called me after I did that last podcast of like, oh, you can be messy and right, like I can be a messy, fucked up communicator, mess up and still coach on communication and still show up, right, and so, knowing that, like you don't have to have it all together in order to bring your story, bring your gift and Brene Brown said this one time, I think in an interview I watched is like, instead of you made me mad or you did this, she says the story I'm telling myself is yes.

Lunden Souza: 39:54

And most recently too, in relationships and other things, it's come up where it's like the story I'm telling myself is that I'm not good enough for you and that I'm not. You know, and getting to the roots of that story is huge. And I know that's your jam. I know you're a story doula, which I would love to hear. I mean, I get the idea of it, I kind of have an idea, but this is not something that you like. You know. Go to college to get your story doula degree, you know. So, like to me, the stories are everything. It's never really about what's happening. It's about the story that you're telling about what's happening, it's about what you make it mean. And so, yeah, I want to know more about what it means to be a story doula and the stories we tell ourselves.

Kristin Birdwell: 40:50

Yeah, I know, and so it's kind of like a twofold really, like the stories we tell ourselves. Well, okay, we are meaning making machines and so the stories we tell ourselves, we can turn everything into a meaning that works for us instead of against us. And so I see, it's like you can live the story that you want to like you're the author of your life canvas by being very selective with the words and the language that you use. I totally believe words are spells and that's why I don't listen to certain music, that's why I don't say certain terms.

Kristin Birdwell: 41:28

I'm like I'm not going to be programmed with that belief. You know I'm very careful, um, so that's one aspect of it. And then the other aspect is that I there's so much freedom and story ownership and I really got to see after writing my own book how everything worked for me and how certain traumas or impacts influence certain decisions in life, Whether it was sexual abuse, whether it was verbal abuse, whether it was grief or pain, loss, chaos, like all these different things. Like writing my story helped me. Writing my old helped me live my new. It just like gave me a different perspective.

Kristin Birdwell: 42:09

Bird's eye lens yeah, I like, loved it. And then it's like interesting and doula to me is like you know someone who helps birth their story, birth something into the world, whether it's a baby or something like that. To me it's a creative project, can also have some of those same characteristics maybe less breastfeeding and less crying, maybe not less crying all the time, but I'd always loved stories and imagination. And then so when I had the epiphany that I wanted to help people birth their stories into a way whether that's a book or coming on my podcast or something like that I burst into tears and started crying and had full-body chills. I was like I guess I got to follow that feeling and now it's also evolved into helping people live their authentic expression or the story they want to live.

Kristin Birdwell: 43:01

And then once I had that epiphany in Um and so like store, and then once I had that epiphany in Costa Rica, I was like, oh snap, I was like duh, I've always loved stories my entire life. Of course it would be stories. It was like kind of like one of these like moments and I'd gone to school for like journalism and studied acting and writing at UCLA, UCLA extension in LA and and all kinds of stuff. So it's. I was like oh duh, took like book coaching stuff too. But yeah, and so I just really feel like the more people are aware that they have that power, that they can create their a new story, then then they'll feel more empowered and live and live a happier life, and that has like tons of ripple effects too, they can be living examples or walking possibilities of what's possible, you know, for their family, for their loved ones, for their ancestors.

Kristin Birdwell: 43:53

You touched on ancestors earlier, and so I think, like both you know, older ancestors and those to come can be inspired or like set a new pathway for their family.

Lunden Souza: 44:06

I love what you said about how, when I chose to rewrite the old, I was allowed to rewrite the new, or however.

Lunden Souza: 44:15

You said that I'm going to have to go back and re-listen, but I love that, and I love the idea of birthing a story, especially for women.

Lunden Souza: 44:27

We can get stuck in the loop, thinking that the only thing we can birth is a human, and I've worked with clients who have had a lot of guilt and shame and frustration around being at an age where they can no longer have kids and, whether they wanted them or not, there's some part of them that feels like they let themselves or even their parents down for not giving them grandkids, et cetera.

Lunden Souza: 44:57

I don't have kids and you can birth a whole lot through that creative, sacral energy, including the story about not having kids and being able to step into your power, and so I love that idea because we all have a story within us to be birthed. We all have a purpose within us to be birthed and gifted to the world. It doesn't have to be a human, and I know I have a lot of moms that listen, because a lot of the episodes with moms do super well, but I also know there's a lot of not moms that are listening too, and so, yeah, I want to talk a little bit about, like, birthing your story and making that the creation that you bring to the world Well, and in some ways I experienced total postpartum depression after it came out and also, I tell people it was kind of like empty.

Kristin Birdwell: 45:57

It was the day when my book was published, it was the day my child left the nest and it was also the day they were born, and so it was like very interesting, and there was a big moment of like, okay, I've done this, now what? So there was like some interesting, like grief too, that I'll never get to have this experience for the first time again, and so it was really interesting that there were some like what I postpartum book birthing or story birthing that came to. And I am totally an advocate of someone following their own inner directives, because the world always is telling us what to believe, what to do, and while some of it is valuable that you know how we can make positive changes and impacts in our lives and in the lives of others, but sometimes a lot of it is conditioning or how we, how others, think we should behave. Like the having children thing I think that's a big one, like I'm 36. Same, about to be 30.

Kristin Birdwell: 46:51

Yeah, and so I'm like I'll be 37 next year, and so a lot of the times, especially, I grew up in a small town. I've even felt that pressure before, like when are you going to have kids? Like my dad, I would love to see some grandkids before I go, and so I think that's big. I also am like totally an advocate for giving mothers and stay at home moms like the honor that they deserve, cause that's gotta be one of the hardest jobs in the world is raising a quality human.

Kristin Birdwell: 47:15

So I'm like, yes, good on you, but we can also be so maternal in other ways, towards ourselves, towards nieces, nephews, towards projects, the stories that we want to birth in the world. I mean, I totally find, like you know, worth and honor in that too. I'm going to switch my leg up here. Okay, did your leg fall asleep? Yeah, I was like I need to move it.

Lunden Souza: 47:42

Last weekend, when we were supposed to originally record our podcast, I drove out to go make candles I can say it because by the time this episode comes out it'll be after Christmas. I went to go make a candle for my mom for Christmas Homemade candle with this girl, nicole who's amazing and I made one for myself. I made one for my mom. Such a beautiful experience. But we were just talking and she was like what's your podcast going to be on? And I was like, oh, I'm talking with this girl, Kristin. This was before we decided to reschedule, but I was like I'm talking with this girl, Kristin.

Lunden Souza: 48:19

She's a story doula and she helps people birth their stories in book form or expression or however. I mean, this was my first time asking you specifically about it, but I know a thing or two. So I was like story doula, I kind of get the idea. And she was like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited to listen to that episode. Will you send it to me when it goes live? Because I've been writing this story and I feel stuck. So I want to talk to the person that's listening. That's like her, who's writing the story and feels stuck. Is there something to learn from the stuck. Should we expect that there's going to be the stuckness in the story birthing process? Is should we expect that there's going to be the stuckness in the story birthing process? What would you say to someone who's like I have that story to get out or I've been doing it?

Kristin Birdwell: 49:16

but now I'm at a spot where I'm just like, meh, I'm not sure what the next best step is. Well, there's a few things, because I think that well, one I have. I'd probably have a lot of questions for her and like, like, where are you at in your process? Have you ever outlined, um? Have you um set a clear beginning and a clear end? Um, especially if it's a personal story, like a memoir, or a reflective story, something like that Sometimes it's memoir to is not every single detail of your life.

Kristin Birdwell: 49:41

It's usually a set period of time or an arc of transformation.

Kristin Birdwell: 49:45

So if it's like this trial or something that you went through, what scenes would paint the before, like the heart of the mess or the chaos, or before you learned a lesson, or before something you know, what's the, the climax of you learning it, what scenes paint that?

Kristin Birdwell: 50:02

And then, to the end, what paints the resolution and who you are today, kind of like something like that is like an easy way to describe it from something to something else. I would also get curious, like, if it's resistance per se, like, is there, you know, a fear that you're not acknowledging, or that you feel stuck, or is there a certain way that you can become inspired again, sometimes maybe even just like writing three different ways to open a book or to finish a book or something like that. I would say, just be very curious about the resistance, because a lot of times the resistance wants us to pause or to not. And I am a huge fan of Steven Pressfield and he wrote a book called the War of Art and he basically says that the more resistance that we feel to our project, the greater it is to the evolution of our soul. And so when you feel that resistance.

Kristin Birdwell: 50:55

I'm like when you feel that resistance and you feel it, it means that you're onto something good, and then you just got to keep applying the ass to the chair and like writing, even if it's like a sentence or a paragraph or something like that. I also highly recommend like getting a shitty first draft out of the way and like feeling that and celebrating that and then and then going back with you know, maybe taking as much time as you need, taking a breather, going back with fresh eyes before you start editing process or recruit someone, and then you know we also have a lot of AI tools and I am like I have some hesitations because I'm such a creative and like I feel like stories are so personal that, um, they can definitely be used as a tool. If you're stuck, like, give me three different options of how to open this scene. Okay, cool. At the same time, there, I do feel like there's nothing that will replace like Austin mentioned on my podcast our unique vibratory signature and medicine that we've gained from all of our life experiences and the things that we've learned along the way, and so that can't be replaced. So you've got to actually, like you know, pour that in through the page.

Kristin Birdwell: 52:08

I also find like finding my flow physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally helps me before I sit down and write. So, whether that's like moving my body, whether it's dance or going for a walk or a workout, whether that's repeating certain affirmations into my mind, or even affirmations where I ask myself a question like why do I feel so inspired? Why do I always meet the right people at the right time? Or, you know, like you know, words flow through me on to the page. Or like I'm a vessel for creative awakenings, or I'm a vessel for whatever shift you want your book to have on the world. And so just like really I love, like just you know, even two. First, like sometimes A meditation will benefit my mental health, my emotional health. A walk does my mental, my physical, my emotional. So I do that sometimes too and recommend that to people that I work with too.

Lunden Souza: 53:04

I like that.

Kristin Birdwell: 53:06

Why am?

Lunden Souza: 53:07

I full of ideas. Why do my ideas effortlessly just go onto the plate with ease?

Kristin Birdwell: 53:14

Why am I such a gifted rider and I feel like when we use that certain tone of voice and then our brains start looking for the answers to the questions that we're asking, and there's so many times where I've asked myself like why am I so abundant? It's those random things like the person buying my coffee in the line ahead of me, or you know, why am I so, especially the? Why do I always meet the right people at the right time?

Kristin Birdwell: 53:41

I have met some people in some interesting ways and so I'm like interesting, cool, It'll be fun to see where that goes.

Lunden Souza: 53:52

Yeah, that's. I love that question why do I meet the right people at the right time? I've never asked myself that question and I've seen that with my eyes wide open in my own life so many times where it's like I'm excited for that person that can help me with this to show up. I think that's more the language I've used before rather than the question, and that's kind of that season in Surrender too, where I know that there's other people that I know I need to collaborate with and what I want to create and what I want to do next, that I'm excited for them to show up. I'm excited to witness that.

Lunden Souza: 54:30

I think that's the other side of the coin, if you will, of thinking you have to do, do, do and do all the things and go, look for the person. And it's like actually there's been so many times where I've met someone in a plant medicine ceremony, in a teepee with five people, or walking down the road, or just decided to get off at that gas station real quick, even though in my head I was going to go to the next one and meet this person. Or get off and go to this diner even though there's a long wait. Oh cool, there's a spot at the bar for one person. I'm going to sit right there. Who's next to me? Right? Like so many cool moments like that. Totally I've had a wreck.

Kristin Birdwell: 55:15

A wreck brought me together with someone cool. A what?

Lunden Souza: 55:20

A wreck, oh, a car wreck yeah.

Kristin Birdwell: 55:22

I was in an Uber going to the airport one time and they sideswiped another black SUV and it ended up being someone really dope and we ended up sharing a well-known famous comedian. We ended up being a, I mean, like a well-known famous comedian. We ended up being on the same flight sharing a mimosa and like talking about writing and just like having this really cool moment and then getting on the flight and coming to Austin. So it was really cool. But yeah, like the sitting at the bar one and yeah, it's not necessarily something that we have to control, it's just being open to those experiences and allowing them to flow, or like the surrender aspect that you're mentioning.

Lunden Souza: 56:00

And when that happens, it just makes me more excited for the next person I might meet, and not so much of like, oh, what can this person do for me? Just like what can the fact that our or what can we create because our paths cross? Or like, oh, now I'm thinking in my head I need to go tell Nicole to connect with you, because you guys would be the perfect connection if she's feeling stuck in her book. Cool, I met her through Becca, who I've done combo with. I met Becca because of my neighbor. I met my neighbor because my best friend came and met my neighbor at the park, right, all all these things where, when you look back at the history of you, it's like it's so much more divine than we're conditioned to believe.

Kristin Birdwell: 56:45

So true, and allowing space for that divinity to happen.

Kristin Birdwell: 56:50

I know I've had some control issues in the past, even sometimes going back to mess and my dog coming into my life. I'm like, oh, he has a big spiritual initiation and releasing control, you know, or cleanliness or like that kind of like OCD ish like nature. So it's been an interesting ride and oh yeah, just like yeah, I, when I came, went to Egypt. I came back and I was following like what I say is the butterflies, like okay, I'm just going to see kind of what life presents and what opportunities happen. And then a friend of mine invited me to go to like a yoga, sound healing place, and then that turns out that's where I met Veronica and I was like, oh, this is nourishing. I went back a couple of weeks and then we grabbed coffee and then we talked about Nava and all these things and so which led to the in-person, which led to meeting you, and I always loved your energy, and so it's like interesting, like how things unfold when we don't try to like make it look a certain way.

Lunden Souza: 57:53

And one more thing I want to talk about. And then we can, yeah, wrap up and land the plan. I could talk to you forever. But something I do a lot with my clients is written exposure therapy. I don't know if you've heard of that before. It's called WET, w-e-t. There's research on it. You could check it out.

Lunden Souza: 58:12

But what you do is you pick a specific moment in time of a story you want to rewrite, and it's five sessions, and you write the first time what happened, the next time what happened. You just don't stop writing. You write the what happened, what happened, what happened. And then the last two sessions you write the because, because this happened, here's what I'm going to make. It mean moving forward, right, and when I first started researching it and then doing it myself and working on that, I was like, oh, it's like the story is a junk drawer. And when you start writing it over and over and over and over and over again, you're taking it out. You're taking that old cord and you're putting it with the cords. You're taking the scissors that has the corroded lipstick connected to it and separate.

Lunden Souza: 59:02

You know, like just organizing, right, we can't erase what happened to us and that's not the point right. We can't make that bad thing go away. You know you talked about losing your dad and we didn't dive a ton into that, but like sexual abuse and I had Elisa Marie on my podcast last week, who has gone through so much stuff and I think about my history with my family and me choosing the route that I wanted to go, and I remember for so long I wanted an apology, I wanted someone to admit they were wrong, I wanted someone to take ownership for what I had experienced in my life. And then when I started working through understanding written exposure therapy and all of that, it was like no, the point is not to delete that, it's to not bleed on all over everybody else and it's to be like, oh, look at that scar, that's from when I did X, y or Z and here's what I learned from it.

Lunden Souza: 59:52

And so I feel like written exposure therapy is so good to organize the mess, organize the file cabinets of all the stories. So then you know it's like I can pull the story and be like when my grandpa wanted to disown me for my decisions. Let me tell you more about this versus me going into relationships thinking I'm not good enough and I have to prove myself and then acting that out right, being able to write that and I've worked with a lot of clients on that, from little things all the way to big things. I always tell them whatever you're willing to touch, I'm willing to go there with you so you can choose right, like if it's you know, I mean yeah whatever that is.

Lunden Souza: 1:00:32

But, yeah, safety, totally the safety. The rapport you know what you've worked through, but I want to talk about the power of the because. So it's like that's what we're here to. I believe to share with the world is like we're going to have the messy right, like me and Kristin today, if it hasn't hit the nail on the head. We use the hot ass mess sometimes but like You're here, you show up anyway. Right, there's moments, like you said, horizontal days. My best friend Allie calls them that too. She'll be like Lunden. You need a horizontal day where it's just like you know, and that's okay, and being messy is okay, and having the hard moments that things happen and you lose people that you love, and I know that in your bio I read when I was kind of going through some of the things you've lost people to suicide. So have I recently, and it's just a lot and that happened. And because that happened, here's now what I get to make it mean.

Kristin Birdwell: 1:01:38

Huge, huge catalyst. Well, I feel like I didn't know it was called that, but written exposure therapy sounds a lot like memoir writing. Got it Because you go back several times and edit it and it's like you see these life events or pivotal life markers and it shifts from something that either happened to you or da da, da da, to the because, to the because. Okay, oh, because that happened, I made this choice and then this one led me to this choice, and then this one led me to this choice where I finally chose myself and feel freedom and liberated and all that. So it's just like an interesting connection of the dots and I would even say like that, because of like, if I'm going to plot or outline or make a timeline of a memoir or a story, a lot of times I'm going to make that timeline, um, and it's because it's like one moment and I give the prompt.

Kristin Birdwell: 1:02:29

It's like this led to that or because of this, this happened because of this. This happened, um, and internally and externally. So it's like externally, like the what happened, the event, the who, what, when happened because of this. This happened, um, and internally and externally. So it's like externally, like the what happened, the event, the who, what, when, where, why, um. And then internally, like the interior life, the emotional shift and it can be bigger, small events that could read a book and this shifted this or because of this happened, or it could be something more traumatic and um, revisit that too and like work on the, because I'm like through that writing and editing process, it seems like you're getting a lot of that exposure therapy and repetition to like go into the subconscious mind and reprogram yourself. So that's interesting. Now I'm like I want to look into written exposure therapy. That's cool.

Lunden Souza: 1:03:12

Yeah, you'll love it. You'll love it. It's very yeah, I think it's very different than talking about it when you're writing it down and you keep rewriting it. I notice with myself and others it's like you have all these details and all the things and then, slowly but surely, it's like what's important to store and make meaning of. It's like now I had like two pages of things all over the place. Now I have like a paragraph, five or six sentences that just I'm not beating around the bush. This is exactly what happened. This is how I felt. This is right where it is, hit the bullseye. Okay, that's there. That's clear. Now I don't need to run around holding that flag, but I can now write what I'm going to make. It mean moving forward and that's what I want to bring to the world, and so that's what I feel like I'm birthing regularly are my becauses.

Kristin Birdwell: 1:04:08

Yeah, that process sounds like a fantastic and beautiful way to help extract the wisdom from the wounds that happen. And then I usually I keep the becauses and I burn the stories.

Lunden Souza: 1:04:22

You don't have to burn it, but I like I'm very ritualistic when it comes to those things. I love fire, yeah, same. I'm like, okay, what happened doesn't really matter, what am I going to make? It mean moving forward. So I have this journal that has a lot of because pages and then a lot of pages ripped out because I'm like, okay, yeah, I remember what happened, that's cool, let me burn that in my toilet or outside or something. And then I don't know that's what I like to do.

Kristin Birdwell: 1:04:45

Well, yeah, because to me that's the truth of the present moment. I will say, though, that, revisiting some of mine, it was also a permission slip to feel like some of the things that I probably suppressed in like the certain time, like with the grief with my dad, or I didn't feel it to the capacity I felt that I could then, but rewriting it gave me permission to feel right the because, and release that old story and pattern, and like I think it, you know, just like it. Also, I want to add one little thing about discernment for me and the messiness. It's like okay, am I avoiding showing up because I feel messy, or discerning is like, or am I resisting showing up because I need rest? I feel like discernment and curiosity is a big key for me. On this whole messiness, on showing up, on storytelling, on helping people, those things are like what I keep going back to. I'm like do I need to hibernate, do or is? Am I resisting being seen like what you know, just getting curious?

Lunden Souza: 1:05:46

yeah, what does the mess need? I'm not sure. Every day what's the most nourishing?

Kristin Birdwell: 1:05:52

yeah, oh for sure, yeah, and that's, and honoring the truth of the present moment.

Lunden Souza: 1:05:58

So good, I appreciate you.

Kristin Birdwell: 1:06:00

I appreciate you honey.

Lunden Souza: 1:06:02

Thanks for talking to me. I love where all we went From our periods to our mess, to our story, to our because, yes and so, yeah, we both need a little heating pad. Horizontal moment For sure.

Kristin Birdwell: 1:06:18

That's exactly what I'm going to do. I'm just going to go lay there for a little bit, drink my water and then reheat my heating pad.

Lunden Souza: 1:06:28

Well, thank you, guys for listening. Thank you for you, Kristin. Thank you, thank you for you. Thank you, thank you for you. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Self Love and Sweat, the podcast. If you enjoyed this episode or were inspired by it or something resonated with you, do me a favor and share this episode with a friend, someone that you think might enjoy this episode as well. That's the ultimate compliment and the best way to make this podcast ripple out into the world of others, and also you can leave us a review up to five stars wherever you're listening to the podcast. Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you at the next episode. I appreciate you.