Chronic Pain, Addiction & Healing with Jenn Reno

Get ready to be blown away by human resilience through the story of our special guest, Jenn Reno. Do you suffer from or know someone who is suffering with chronic pain and addiction looking for support, relief and healing? This episode is exactly where you're supposed to be.

Jenn Reno is a Meditation Teacher, Reiki Healer, Sound Healer and Pain Warrior with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome (EDS). Connect with Jenn on Instagram to book your breathing and healing session…

Timestamps to help you navigate this episode...
0:00 Intro
0:24 FREE Self Love & Sweat MONTHLY Calendar
5:17 A Life Shaped By Nature
16:21 Healing Through Meditation and Mindfulness
33:49 Reiki, Sensitivity, and Self-Understanding
43:31 The Gift of Mindfulness
56:42 Empowerment Through Meditation and Healing

IG: @‌jennreno

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 0:24 FREE Self Love & Sweat MONTHLY Calendar
• 5:17 A Life Shaped By Nature
• 16:21 Healing Through Meditation and Mindfulness
• 33:49 Reiki, Sensitivity, and Self-Understanding
• 37:25 Healing and Communicating Through Generations
• 43:31 The Gift of Mindfulness
• 56:42 Empowerment Through Meditation and Healing

Transcript

Lunden Souza: 0:00

Welcome to Self Love and Sweat the podcast, the place where you'll get inspired to live your life unapologetically, embrace your perfect imperfections and do what sets your soul on fire. I'm your host, Lunden Souza. Hey, before we jump into this episode, I just want to make sure that you get all the free things possible, If you haven't already. You need to get your self-love and sweat free monthly life coaching calendar. Honestly, the way to experience deep change in your life is by doing small little things over time, and so that's what you'll find in this free calendar. You can get it by going to lifelikelunden. com/calendar. Get yours for free and let's get into today's episode

Lunden Souza: 1:01

Welcome back to the podcast. Today we have Jenn Reno that I get to, that you guys have the pleasure of listening to, but I also feel like as the host or whatever that means of this podcast. I always get to have the honor of just connecting with some of the most beautiful, amazing people ever, and I met Jenn kind of recently, but I just immediately, yeah, fell in love with her and I just am so excited to have a conversation with you today, Jenn, Welcome to the podcast.

Jenn Reno: 1:34

Thank you, I'm happy to be here.

Lunden Souza: 1:38

One of the or how I kind of want to start. This is a couple of weeks ago. I posted up or I recorded an episode about reflections on my 36th birthday and that episode was really like a no plan plan, I like to call it. I just was like whatever, I just know I want to reflect and I'm just going to press record and go and I remember afterwards thinking like, did that even make sense? I don't even know if I said anything clearly, cohesively, whatever, and I don't really generally go back and listen to episodes, like I do sometimes, but it's more just like press record, put it out there.

Lunden Souza: 2:17

But I went back and listened and I was like, oh, actually I kind of did make sense, like I kind of, you know, did kind of pull it together, and you called and left me a voicemail just sharing about how the part that I mentioned about being messy and being able to do what we do despite the mess or while we're in the mess and we can be messy, and and so Jenn called me and left me a voicemail just affirming my mess and it felt so good and I felt so seen and heard and I just love you and I'm so grateful that you agreed to be here on the podcast. I'm so grateful that I met you and I'm so grateful for your reflections that you also shared with me about your mess and insecurities a little bit around the mess and all of that. So thank you for you.

Jenn Reno: 3:10

I mean, I just can't even tell you how much you've helped my life so far and what is it? It hasn't been a long time that I've known you, but it feels like it's been years, just like, if it's communication, you know, I did your course and it really had me like the self-proclaimed, like I've been in therapy my whole life. Person, you know, was like oh shoot, like I really need to take some steps back and look at the way I communicate. And then, yeah, when you shared about, you know, the mess and it's like we're all in and out of that mess and that's really what we have to do.

Jenn Reno: 3:54

And it feels like in the line of work that we're both in, you know, like wellness, self-help, raising your vibration. It's like you feel like you should always be up here and just succeeding and thriving and never making mistakes. And it's not possible, like it's not possible and it's really, you know, that's like where the growth happens right Is when we allow ourselves to be in that mess kind of sort the mess like okay, this is working for me, this is working, this is not working for me. And while I feel like it's safe and I need to hold on to it, I need to let it go because it's not helping. So sorting through that mess and having your soul, family around you to support in that time is so important. And then you come out and you're like, oh, I'm back, I'm back.

Lunden Souza: 4:55

Yeah, sorting through the mess. That's what I was thinking when you were talking and then you said it Sorting through the mess, being able to sit in it, understand it a little bit, but choosing not to stay there. Tell us a little bit more about you and what you do and who you are in this world.

Jenn Reno: 5:17

I mean, it's like, where do you even start? So much of who I am is because of where I grew up. I grew up in what I believe is one of the most beautiful places in the world Jackson Hole, wyoming and I'm like a nature nerd from the get-go. Being outside in nature has always been very important to me and has been a lot of my purpose in my life of whether it's purpose and what brought me happiness was camping and snowboarding and climbing and fly fishing, growing up on the river, um, to going to college for conservation, biology and wanting to fight to save these beautiful places and um, so I always go back to like man, like growing up there really imprinted so much of who I am today, um, and every time I go back there it's just like like a big, like. This is my home home, um, I am now a mama, I have a four-year-old, I am a meditation teacher, a light worker, sound healer, um, and really have found all of these things because of my own struggles and um. You know we talked about the like turning pain into purpose, and um, I never meant to become a teacher of any of this. I really was just trying to find relief within my own existence and then became a teacher and a healer, and, um, I just feel like what I found, this like relief and this magic and, um, the people who are attracted to this, this world. It saved my life and I want to share it with anybody who wants to make a change in their life, you know, whether it's just with work or a relationship, or really deep, deep, deep soul searching. Um, I know it's like a wellspring of um of hope and relief to get into this world and it makes me a better mom, a better partner, a better friend. Um, and I'm constantly learning because I'm surrounded with people like you, um, and our, our NABA family. Um, you know so many perspectives.

Jenn Reno: 7:54

It's like when you think you know exactly who you are or what you want, um, you hear something out of somebody else's mouth that maybe you've heard before, but it just wasn't the right person, and you're like, oh wait, I want that too. That sounds like a really good, beautiful thing to add to my life and I want to learn all about it. So I feel like I'm constantly a student. Um, I want to. I want to keep evolving and just kind of showing up as much as I can, right, because, like we said, we have these periods in our life and I've had quite a life of health issues with a genetic disorder called Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, had over 20 surgeries, I have been brought back from the other side, I have been in hospital beds for many months of my life.

Jenn Reno: 8:58

I have had brain leaks, all these things and, um, it's like the people who have come into my life because of all of these, what you know, some of them were pretty horrific experiences. Like I'm, I can't believe how lucky I am that I have found the people I did and I wouldn't have if it weren't for this disease, this disease, this disorder, and so, you know, while I was really just trying to find my way out of chronic pain and all these things, I found a lot of magic and I feel like that's a lot of information.

Lunden Souza: 9:41

But yeah, you said showing up and wanting to continue to show up and you just so, like casually, it rolls off the tongue like 20 surgeries, I guess a near death experience or maybe you did die, I'm not sure, I don't know that part of your story and being in chronic pain and still showing up, how does one do that? How do you wake up and be a mom to your beautiful daughter, who I love? I haven't met her in person yet, but I call her my bestie because I know that the second I get to meet her we're going to be besties for life. It's already written. But how do you show up, being someone who experiences chronic pain and still see that magic?

Jenn Reno: 10:27

Well, there's been many seasons in my life where I couldn't show up, like literally couldn't walk to go to the bathroom, would have to army crawl. I couldn't show up at all. And it's been a long time since. Since I started meditating actually is when, like, everything shifted for me, because I really was living in constant fear of, like, what surgery was going to be next.

Jenn Reno: 10:58

Um, there's a lot of information that's coming out about Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, so, like, if you haven't heard of it yet, you will start to meet people or read about it in the news. But for a long time it was just kind of like doctors wouldn't listen to me. I didn't get diagnosed until I was in my 30s, you know. So it was a lot of like, oh, you're just too active or you need to work out more, and I'm like, I'm a personal trainer, like I live in the gym, um, you know, not feeling heard for a really long time and just being told, um, that it wasn't that bad, even though I needed surgeries and they were always having to operate, um, and so I just like shut down for a long, long time, and then I wouldn't even go to the doctor for pretty serious things, and by the time I would go, they'd be like, why didn't you come sooner? And it's like, well, because every time I come, you basically tell me nothing's wrong with me, um, or that it's like a trending thing to have, where, when I all I wanted was a diagnosis, so I could like figure out how to, so I could like figure out how to, how to live better, and so, yeah, there's a lot of times where I just really was in a dark place. I had suicidal ideations, with chronic pain, I felt very isolated and alone for so long and I've been in those periods, off and on, where it's like I feel so guilty because I am, like you know, a white woman with a lot of privilege and access to see whoever I want almost you know and I have great friends and family and an awesome partner.

Jenn Reno: 12:42

But I didn't ever want to be a burden, and that really also stems from, like childhood stuff my mom where basic needs were often a burden, and I never want to be that person. I want to be the person showing up and like helping you and then, seriously, within four days of starting meditation like an actual practice of like one in the morning, one in the afternoon bookends on the fourth day of that, my whole life changed and it's I've never gone back. So, like, while I wake up and I have, you know, a few weeks ago I was in bed because my lower back is starting to hurt again and my hip and I get Harper out the door Like there's things I have to do and that need to get done, but then I come and lay in bed, you know, for six hours and or go sit in my sauna or whatever it is that I need to do. But really, since meditation, um, I've never gotten back to that place of such complete fear. I'm more in a like, okay, if something hurts and I might need another surgery, I'm like, okay, great, I'm going to do everything I can before that surgery to prepare for it.

Jenn Reno: 13:57

I always train for surgeries, body allowing, like I did when I was a competitive snowboarder. I want to be as strong as I can. I need my body to be, you know, detoxed and clean, um, and a lot of meditation and work around that and going into surgery with, um, you know, nervous system down and um, I just know that I am taken care of and as long as I have my breath, I'm okay. But you know, there are days when I want to set my hair on fire when I'm trying to parent a toddler, but I'm breaking that generational trauma between mothers and daughters, like I'm not going to make my daughter feel like a burden, because she's four years old and is a kiddo and has her needs, like she needs me, and so it's my responsibility to do everything I can, um, to not snap, because I was getting there at one point and I immediately was like, okay, I need to go back to therapy.

Jenn Reno: 15:07

I started microdosing. Um, you know, again, this is like a very first world thing where I had a friend who gave me really good advice. She was a client, turned one of my best friends. Now, if, like, there was anything that was causing stress between Eric and I that money could fix, do it. And if you have it and that was for me, calling a babysitter more often and taking time to go cold plunge and sauna and, you know, self-care. So, while life with chronic pain and parenting like don't really go hand in hand together, it's my responsibility to take care of myself and just like it is, like, even if before I had Harper, you know to be a better parent or a better, um, uh, partner, a better friend. You know, like to do as much as I can, and sometimes the best that I could do is lay in bed and just maybe text a friend, and sometimes also asking friends for help, because friends like to help, you know.

Lunden Souza: 16:17

Yeah, so yeah, meditation. I love what you said about that fourth session Not that for everybody, it's that but I'm also thinking, too, like you're going to all these doctors. They're discovering more about your diagnosis and all those things. I wasn't at these doctor's appointments with you, but I'm probably certain that they weren't prescribing meditation and breath right. But how did you discover this practice and these bookends? Like, what were you actually doing? I mean, I know I meditate, I know what that is, but for those listening, sometimes people are like, well, I can't quiet my mind or I can't sit there. Sometimes people are like, well, I can't quiet my mind or I can't sit there. And how do you meditate? What did those bookends look like? What were you doing?

Jenn Reno: 17:11

Yeah, no, no doctors were giving me any advice on what to do. There is prescribing medications and things like that. But, um, my neurosurgeon actually I had my first spine surgery about 12 years ago and within that spine surgery I got a brain leak and then had to be in the hospital and was so drugged up I was like in like a drug induced coma, breathing on my own, but remember nothing, because they had to get a team of doctors, of neurosurgeons together to figure out how to operate on this brain leak that I had. They didn't know where it was located. They're calling my family. Somebody needs to get out to California.

Jenn Reno: 18:02

And when I woke up from the surgery I can't remember if it was my neurosurgeon or one of the doctors saying you might find yourself having a really hard time after this surgery because, while you don't remember any of what happened this last week, your body does. And I didn't know what they meant. And I was also just two years clean too. So, like all my other surgeries, I would drink and do drugs after because painkillers made me so sick and I was also just a drug addict, so there was that. But, um, so this was also my first surgery clean, so I didn't have any of those things. It was in a neck brace which felt very scary, and all of a sudden I started having panic attacks and like hyperventilating, and I would just be on a walk with my dog and I would be like a mess on the side of the road and my neurosurgeon was like, do you paint? And I was like no, I don't really know how. And he goes go get an easel, easel and some paint. And like let's start tapping into that part of the brain when you go into these moments or before that happens. And so I started painting a lot and loving that and finding like some calm in that.

Jenn Reno: 19:17

And then I needed a second surgery not long after that on my spine and I was in so much pain and I was so angry and frustrated and before that I had had five shoulder reconstructions, um, a full hip reconstruction in between the two spine surgeries, three knee surgeries, a full ankle surgery, appendectomy Like I had had all these joints operated on. But I didn't really understand the spine and it's like that, how spine pain really affects your emotional stability. So I'm in my neurosurgeon's office and I'm crying and I'm cussing and he's like looking at the x-ray and he's like I see what's wrong. Your neck isn't broken, You're not going to die. You do need surgery, but I will not operate on you. When you are this heightened, your surgery, your recovery will be so much harder. And he told me I needed to see the pain. Psychologist, um, which in my mind was again somebody saying it's not that bad, this pain isn't real.

Jenn Reno: 20:26

Like go see a shrink and you need to meditate. And I told him to fuck off. I slammed the door, said fuck you, and I went back with my tail between my legs and agreed to see the pain psychologist and didn't meditate for like 12 years later, six years later, seven years later I guess I still talk to that pain psychologist to this day Um, and it really was. Um.

Jenn Reno: 20:58

After five more spine surgeries throughout the years, I really injured my neck really horribly and was given the gift of desperation. Basically, um, I had started meditating a little bit with the insight timer and I had a spine surgery and then I got another brain leak. This one wasn't as bad, so I was unconscious, but I had to lay completely flat in the hospital for a week before the next surgery. I typed in pain and the topics, for you can type in whatever you're going through on Insight and it will fill your feed with different meditations or Dharma talks and things that go along with that. And this teacher, david G, popped up and he had a meditation on the body's ability to heal and repair itself. I listened to that probably thousands of times in the following months, like right before surgery that morning, immediately after and for the months following probably three times a day, and the mantras, just everything resonated so much with me.

Jenn Reno: 22:04

But I was still kind of just crisis meditating right Cause I was in so much pain and I was miserable but, like I was desperate and then I found I was scrolling on Instagram months later cause I wasn't able to work for over a year after that surgery. That um, a studio in Los Angeles, was doing a teacher training with David G, and I had been attending some live meditations to in Venice. But again it was just like, oh, I'm free tonight, I'll go to one, but not establishing like a real practice. And I was like you know, this could be really good for me to a like, I just wanted to learn more about meditation, like what it really was, and all the different techniques and styles and things, um, and to deepen my practice. And so I did this teacher training with David G and um. It was six weeks, you know, like 200 hours, and we had to meditate twice a day, every day, the entire time, and we did it through the unplug meditation app, which I'm now on with healing meditations. Every meditation we listened to was a different teacher, a different style. You know different techniques. You find your people with the voice you like, or you know guided visualizations, mantra meditations, all these different things. So you are experiencing the whole spectrum of meditation, probably outside of TM and um.

Jenn Reno: 23:31

On the fourth day I realized I hadn't taken a painkiller in three days, hadn't even thought about them. Um, I was sitting at a coffee shop, studying in Venice, and I was like whoa, like it blew my mind because I was just recovering from this huge spine surgery. I was still in a lot of pain. I took those things, you know, a couple of times a day. I checked in with my body and I was like I hurt but I could just be with it and that's like how I am now. It's like pain comes but I'm not afraid of it anymore either, like I'm, I'm not afraid of it. I'm not going to say that I don't cry and get angry, that I you know it's there sometimes or holding me back from doing something I want, but I'm not afraid of it like I used to be.

Jenn Reno: 24:27

And I was also just afraid of the world, like when, you, you know, I grew up in a really not great home with my mom when I was little. She was a lovely person, beautiful, but she was very sick and um, a lot of childhood abuse and, um, you know that followed into my choices as an adult, in relationships too, of like that pretty textbook. I engaged to a drink today alcoholic, who was abusive, just like my mother, you know. Um, so I was afraid of the world and I didn't know how to make very good decisions and I was also just a person who felt safe.

Jenn Reno: 25:12

Right, we're talking about that mess, we're sorting through where you're like I should get rid of this. But I feel safe to keep it safer with. The extremes of things are really good or really bad. But if things are just like right here and mellow and like floating along, that was really uncomfortable for me and I would do things to sabotage that. Whether it was a relationship or maybe a job usually relationships If somebody was like actually really good for me and I was like Ooh, can't have that, you know, like too safe too good.

Jenn Reno: 25:50

Yep. So once I with meditation, you know, on that, after that fourth day, it was, like you know, they say it's not always what happens in the meditation, but what happens outside of it. Right, like, what is your world like afterwards? And it really was like it was like a movie. I feel like all of a sudden I could just like walk around like the streets and I'd be like, oh, the flowers and like bluebirds and things you know, and my anxiety changed. I used to carry around Klonopin or Xanax as well, just in case, like I always knew it was by me if I needed it. And it's like, all of a sudden, my anxiety. I tell this to a lot of clients now because it really helped me and I do this with my pain as well.

Jenn Reno: 26:46

So when COVID started, I got a lot more clients right, virtual meditation clients all over the world, and and it was like teaching them to talk to their anxiety, like you would a little kid right, when a little kid falls and scrape their knees, you're like, oh, that hurts, doesn't it? Yeah, you fell and you scraped it and that's a hard thing to fall on and, yeah, that does hurt. You know, like for me, I'm not going to be like, oh, it's not that bad, get up, it's like okay, let's talk that bad, get up, you know. It's like okay, let's talk about what happened and look at where we are and then you know, kind of take care of it and then move on from there. So with anxiety, I could tell people during the pandemic of like, well, of course you have anxiety Like we've. None of us have lived through a pandemic, none of us have lived through a pandemic.

Jenn Reno: 27:41

This is new. Like you should have anxiety and it's okay, it's there, and so, while some people it took a lot longer than others to kind of adopt that practice I do that with, I really like rarely get anxiety anymore, but if my neck is hurting in the middle of the night, I'm like, yeah, your neck should hurt you. Even though you're a year and a half out of your last surgery, you could still be healing. You have a lot of titanium in there. That it's not normal. Like this is a foreign object in your body, like I just talked to it, and it kind of like it dissipates, you know, Um. And so whenever there's something with you know anxiety too, I'm like, yeah, you should feel anxious. Like you've never been a, a mother to a toddler during, uh, you know the state of where we are. You know, um, you want to protect her, and so it's just weird, like it's wild, and it is truly what everybody said. It was Right.

Jenn Reno: 28:48

But I was like, no, I'm just like an athlete, like I can't meditate. I don't meditate. I wish I would have had it as a child. I would love to know what version, what I would have been like if I had a meditation practice as a child. Like what, what would I look like as an adult, right? Like what could I have saved myself from you know? Um, and that's like I, just everybody I meet too, like when they talk to me about what I do and they're like oh yeah, I should probably meditate, but I can't, and I'm like you can.

Lunden Souza: 29:34

You can, especially thinking about the version of you that told the doctor to fuck off and then, years later, getting to that first meditation. Of course, your response now is like, oh, trust me, you can, but let's get to that moment. From fuck off, doctor, all the way leading up to that moment, you decided to meditate for the first time. What happened? Did you just decide, okay, fuck it, I'm just going to try it. What do I have to lose?

Jenn Reno: 30:03

Or like I think I'm trying to remember exactly why. It was around a new year coming up and I told my partner. I said my new year's resolution which I don't really make resolutions usually, but I was like is going to be to meditate and I'm like, and I'm serious, I need to like join a group so I'm there with people and, like some, have somewhat of like accountability to be there and, um, because you know, even now, like as much as I talk about I love meditation, there's often where I'm like I'd rather just kind of sit on the couch and watch a show right now before I'm from school, like I'd kind of, you know, like I could always find 27 other things to do before that, but I know I'm going to feel better after that, rather than sitting, I mean, while I do love to sit on the couch and watch Both and.

Jenn Reno: 31:12

But so just literally 30 minutes after I told him I wanted to join a meditation group, we were on a walk in Venice and they're on a building. On this white building, it said meditate in black, huge. And I was like what the fuck is that? It was new, because we walk that street all the time and I run across the street and mush my face up against the window of whatever business this is. They weren't open yet and they had literally just they were just putting it all together.

Jenn Reno: 31:33

And as soon as they opened, I went to my first meditation and my teacher, peter Opperman he's this lovely man and it was a future self meditation. So for years doctors told me like you probably shouldn't even try to carry a pregnancy, there's, your body's not gonna allow it. Um, and I always wanted to be a mom and in this future self meditation and I think also I like he, they told us like really guided us on your breath and that you're supposed to have thoughts and things like that, where years before, I thought you had to be clear, free and clear of all thoughts, like I thought I, you know, was just going to be thinking about nothing and I never asked questions too right, like I had way too much ego to be. Like, how do you meditate? Like what is it even really? And now I'm one people, I'm like it's breathing, truly it's breathing. But I didn't know that. And so, once I asked questions and I found the right teacher, I'm guided in this meditation and I meet my future self. I have a kid on my hip. Meditation, and I meet my future self. I have a kid on my hip.

Jenn Reno: 32:46

At the time I was in Ayurvedic medical school. I see all my Ayurvedic herbs in the corner of my kitchen. My thing was I always wanted a house with a lemon tree, which I now have, and a daughter, and so at the end of the meditation I was like, can I work with you privately? Like you're going to change my life? And so I started doing private sessions with him a little bit, not twice a day and he's the one who told me about insight time or like hey, I suggest you do this, um, on your own. And, um, I worked with him. I was having a spine surgery and I worked with him, like all the days leading up to it and as soon as I got out of the hospital, worked with him and, yeah, I just, but I still was kind of in crisis meditation mode, but literally a sign in the sky that said meditate. You know, it was perfect. And that place really, um, I ended up teaching there after I got certified. It's where I um really studied Reiki healing as well.

Jenn Reno: 33:49

And, again, I never intended to be a Reiki healer. I just wanted to understand my existence in the world, like how I could exist more comfortably in the world. I didn't. I was starting. Once I stopped doing drugs and I got clean, I started to notice how sensitive to other people I am. I mean, even, like you can see, like I blush really easily and like when I'm in conversations that I'm so excited about, um, I'd be around a crowd of people and I'd be shaking and I was like, oh, this is why I did drugs so much, like I couldn't go to a concert without doing drugs and numbing out, you know. So I studied Reiki, um, just to help myself. And to. You know, I always thought it was, something was wrong with me. Um, I just I didn't understand myself at all and really, through Reiki and meditation and sound, I have come to understand a lot more about myself. You know, I've had many different purposes so far in my 42 years. I've had many different existences as well.

Lunden Souza: 35:07

Well, but this one I feel like is like the best shift for like a higher good. I feel like I'm like sweaty and have goosebumps from listening to your story and how freaking incredible that is of literally a street you walk past all the time. Meditation was something that was always going to find you, that you were going to find, and then boom right outside. A place you pass all the time is meditate and that's where you're supposed to be. And I got a chance to meditate with you on Thanksgiving.

Lunden Souza: 35:37

You hosted a virtual meditation for those in our NABA community and I had sent some texts to people like, hey, come in, and if you're not doing anything this morning and you have some time, and I just, oh, I enjoyed it so much and it was so beautiful and your voice is like like it's so great and it's so interesting to hear that journey of where you've been and where you are now and being able to experience you now, as you also probably are. I'm grateful for all those versions and all the things that you needed to go through in order to be exactly where you're at now. Do you still feel like a burden? Do you have that voice? That's still. I'm sure the volume is a little bit turned down on it compared to maybe before, but like there's somebody listening who feels like a burden too, I can guarantee it.

Jenn Reno: 36:31

So like what's that, like you know I. So my parents were divorced and my life with my dad was like amazing. He was. He's been sober since I was two years old, very emotionally intelligent man, um, and you know he provided in ways that I could. You know I could do gymnastics, I could compete in snowboarding and travel and, you know, do these things and not be scared to go home at night. And then with my mom it was like food stamps, cops, being in a couple drunk driving accidents with her where the cars were totaled, and being scared walking down the road off the bus with my brother every day, not knowing what we're going to come home to.

Jenn Reno: 37:25

And so when I made the decision at 10 and I moved and lived with my dad permanently in Jackson Hole, I didn't feel like I should complain because my life then and there was great and I was really well taken care of. But, um, you know, I was like who am I to complain? Like I have I'm okay and I feel like I still kind of carry that sometimes and, um, of being like a white woman who has access to healthcare. You know, when I have friends who live in other um, in other States that maybe don't have like all the holistic healing I've been able to, you know, whether it's acupuncture or like the opportunity to microdose and do these things, it's like it's like it's. It's a weird dichotomy Like I feel like a burden but I'm like, oh God, I'm so lucky though, like I'm so blessed. Um, and it's been a lot for my family, it's been a lot for my dad.

Jenn Reno: 38:34

You know I all those unresolved childhood traumas caught up with me. When I was 20, I had to go to rehab for anorexia and you know that was scary. I was put in Stanford cardiology department with fear of heart failure. You know there's a lot of stress. And then I didn't finish everything there I should have, and then, you know I didn't. I really kept pushing those things that I grew up with in and I never wanted to speak badly about my mom either, because I felt really sad for her. And the older I got and started to understand mental illness more, which I, you know, when I was six and seven, had no idea what was going on, other than I was like incredibly scared all the time, or like had the best mom in the world, like it was back and forth. But you know, I carried all of that stuff, then into drugs and alcohol and, um, yeah, I really, um, you know I overdosed, I tried to kill myself.

Jenn Reno: 39:53

I, I put my family through a lot and then that stuff on top of all the surgeries, the calls hey, we need family members to be here to make decisions while your daughter's unconscious, um, before we do this next surgery for a brain. You know, it's been a lot, and so, while my dad has never, ever once made me feel guilty, he would probably like me to complain more. Um, yeah, it's, I know that I'm worthy of having help and um, but yeah, it's, it's hard. Often, eric needs to kind of like step in and be like, what can, what do you need? You know, um, and that's, you know. That's something that I need to continue to work on and is in my communication, and you know, to be a better version of myself is asking for help rather than um, or complaining. Even you know, um, I know I do all the things to try to feel my best, and so if I weren't doing anything to feel better and then complaining on top of that like there's nothing, I hate more than when people do that.

Lunden Souza: 41:14

Do nothing and complain about everything.

Jenn Reno: 41:16

Yeah, yeah, that's like something I have to work on of my tolerance, because I, because I'm just like the, I'll try anything help me. Like how I was with drugs, basically Right, like, if one is good, 10 or better. Like I'm like that with with wellness. I'm like Ooh, what is it? Tell me more. What does it feel like? Yeah, like a healthier version, to feel seen and heard if she's having feelings or if she hurt herself and if she needs help.

Lunden Souza: 42:06

I want her to feel safe in asking for help when she needs it and that it's not a burden, and so you know I need to lead by example in that, yeah, be the model for her and being someone, yeah, who grew up with, yeah, a dad who was a coach, where it was like quit your crying, find a way, suck it up. I have a great relationship with my dad. I love him. We have so much fun together and that was the nature of how I grew up. I often will joke with him and be like, yeah, I'm not a, I know I wasn't a 16 year old baseball player that needed, you know, a little pump up to get up to bat and serve. You know, I was like a little girl, you know.

Lunden Souza: 42:50

And one of my favorite videos ever that you've sent me because sometimes Jenn will send me videos of Harper, little messages there was one where she was laying on the ground and you had crystals on her and she was breathing and you could just tell like you know, that's her normal, like that's just like what you do and she knows how to connect with her breath and you get to have those fun moments. But I remember watching that video so many times. In fact, I hope I still have it I probably do in our scroll history. But you said she's four, right, and how are you now? I know you said before.

Lunden Souza: 43:31

You're like I wonder what my life would be like if I had meditation at that age. Well, obviously you're now breaking that pattern and providing that for Harper, which is so beautiful and that's one of my favorite videos of her ever. I was just like, oh my gosh. Like what a lucky girl, what a lucky child to choose you as a mom, you know. And so like, what's that dialogue like with a four-year-old of what it's like to connect with your breath? Also, like, does she see mommy in pain and have questions about those things? Like what's the conversation with your child, with Harper?

Jenn Reno: 44:08

like so she, since having her, I've had one spine surgery about a year and a half ago, and so what happens is my spine dislocates, so my neck dislocates, and then I like rupture discs and do things, and so it happened very suddenly and for the couple months after that I was in bed. I couldn't take her to the park, I couldn't do anything with her, and then I had surgery and then I wasn't allowed to pick her up for I think eight weeks, maybe three months, again just in bed, couldn't be anywhere with her. But she was so sweet and she still is, because my neck is very painful these days and just something I'm, you know, kind of dealing with again. But she'll be like, if she asked me to pick her up, I'll hold her and then she cups the front and the back of my neck like my neck brace does. And she's like, if I, if she asked me to pick her up, I'll hold her, and then she cups the front and the back of my neck like my neck brace does, and she's like I'll hold your neck for you, mama.

Jenn Reno: 45:08

Or sometimes, when she wants alone time with with her dad, she'll be like mommy, why don't you go get an ice pack and go rest your neck upstairs. It's kind of like a a beat it but your ice pack and go rest. So she's very, um, she's very aware, she's very emotional, um, and like kisses where I'm hurt. She'll kiss my hip a lot or like cradle it, um, and so you know, my mom had really bad chronic pain too and she could have easily. So my mom's passed, my mom passed away 10 years ago but, um, you know, I remember being really afraid of her pain, really afraid.

Jenn Reno: 45:55

And, um, I don't, I don't want Harper to be afraid of mine, I don't, I don't want Harper to be afraid of mine and you know I try to talk about the things that we do to help ourselves and you know, when it comes to meditation, really so I was four months pregnant when COVID started and all my classes that I taught all over Los Angeles became virtual. I had tons of virtual Reiki clients and so, with her in my belly, I was doing so much energy healing and so much breathing and mantra meditation became like my thing, which I did throughout my labor as well, and it kind of just like we didn't even really talk about it. She just I always had my sound balls out and all my crystals and just open like let her play with them. You know, like I came to terms with things were going to break, but I want her to have that curiosity and wonder and have access to them, um, and play with them. And so, yeah, I don't, I don't even know the belly breath, Like she was so young right there I think she was two and she take in that video.

Jenn Reno: 47:13

She's taking a few deep breaths, has crystals all on her chakras and she says, mama breath and I go you want me to take a deep breath? And she goes, yeah, and so then I take a deep breath with her, um, and you know, when I drop her off at school she's like I hope you have a great meditation. I, I go teach meditation a couple of days a week and I think she thinks I'm meditating like the whole time. She's gone. Um, I'll pick her up from school. How was your meditation mama? Did you teach the grownups? And so, you know, I love that, it makes me, it makes me happy. I love that she wants to play the sound bowls and she learned how to om really young and she, we love to om together. So you know, I just want her to explore any and all of it.

Jenn Reno: 48:04

Um, I, you know I wasn't raised with any religion. I was raised with on star Wars, um, the force. My dad would be like whatever you need is within you, like the force, like in star Wars, and so that's like literally what we grew up with and like I want her to know that, like whatever she needs, it's, she has it or will be there to help support her in that. But really, for me to like meditation is my prayer. Um, meditation is my connection to whatever it is Like. I don't, I don't know, I don't believe in God, but I believe in something much bigger and greater than myself and I know I feel so much more connected to that through meditation. You know, like when I'm out on a hike or under the Tetons, or even just out on a walk on the trails here with my dog, it's like I just feel something so magical and present and my practice keeps me in touch with that.

Lunden Souza: 49:17

When you said about Harper, you're like I don't want her to be afraid of my pain. How do you want Harper to feel about her pain?

Jenn Reno: 49:29

Um, I don't want to say inviting, but like, well, it depends on what kind of pain, you know, because it's like on what kind of pain you know, because it's like if it's heartbreak, you know, when she's a little bit old or a lot older, and you know like I want her to feel everything, even if it's really hard to witness. Because, you know, I remember once I broke a boyfriend's heart. I made a really big mistake. It was very selfish, and I called my dad crying and he said I'm so glad you finally fucked up. And I've always kept those words with me because when I lived with my dad I was such a perfectionist and wanting to make everybody happy and, um, you know, while I was like experimenting with drugs and alcohol at a very young age, I wasn't the kid who was like outwardly rebelling, it was like quiet, but I was still, you know, a good like I did horrible in school, but I was a very nice student.

Lunden Souza: 50:39

You know like.

Jenn Reno: 50:40

I was a nice friend. Yeah, you know, I did well in gymnastics, I did well in snowboarding, like I kept the act up, like I always had this facade, um and so, like those words, I'm so glad you finally fucked up. It's like I want Harper to know that, no matter what she's always loved, um, whatever you know she does, whatever mistakes she makes, like she's loved and whatever pain she's having, um, you know she'll be held and supported. And you know always, we always need that reminder, even though we're like oh, when people are like, it gets better. I promise You're like yeah, yeah, I have this friend.

Lunden Souza: 51:28

when you said that, it just reminded me a really close friend of mine, jana, and she's in her sixties and we've been, yeah, really close for a while. But I remember when I moved back to America from Austria and then spent a lot of time in Southern California, which is where she lives. I remember just expressing things to her that were hard and uncomfortable and that were a struggle for me, and expressing emotions. And she has a story not the same as yours but still as much of like are you fucking kidding me? That type of past and things going on. And I remember when I would express some of these things to her, she'd be like you're doing such a great job and I'm so excited for you. I'm just so excited for you.

Lunden Souza: 52:20

And I remember being pissed when she would say that I'd be like what do you mean?

Lunden Souza: 52:23

You're excited for me.

Lunden Souza: 52:24

This sucks right now, but what I now know is on the other side of that pain, on the other side of that obstacle or that hard moment or that heartbreak, on the other side of the fuck up, like your dad said, is so much magic and is so much learning and growth and everything that you need to keep evolving and keep growing and keep leaning into that future version of yourself, that higher version of yourself.

Lunden Souza: 52:53

But I remember when she would say that in the moment, like you said, when people are like, oh, it's going to get better, you're like, all right, cool, thanks for the feedback, see you later, go on. But she would do that to me too. There was such excitement and this joy in her eyes, knowing that I was struggling and suffering, and not because she wanted me to be there, but she knew what was on the other side of that and she had been through so much and gotten on the other side of that too. But when you said that, it reminded me of that. So I'm really grateful for Jana and all the encouragement and wonder and excitement that she had while I was going through a really hard time, a really hard time.

Jenn Reno: 53:40

I really like Brene Brown's talks on shame you know and love her, something I'm continually experiencing, I think, even on your posts like you're like feeling a little shameful of like being in this mess and I'm like, hey, I'm here too with you, Like, and I needed you to write what you did to also feel okay. And I remember when I got clean, I often spoke at meetings all over LA and I had just found out that day that I did something like really I was so disgusted with in my using that when I was in a blackout before I ended up in rehab, that when I was in a blackout before I ended up in rehab and I was so disgusted and ashamed and I got up and I spoke about it in front of 150 people. And afterwards this younger girl cause I was like 28, 29, this younger girl came up to me and just started crying and she's like I've never told anybody, but I did the same thing and I needed this tonight and it was like, oh, like that was my first real like you know, and with feeling alone, in chronic, in moments, with chronic pain. It's like, while there's nothing you can really do for Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, the best thing I have found is community. So I'm a part of this like Facebook group, right, and I've met some really wonderful, amazing friends who have it and we support each other or we commiserate, you know, or offer our experiences and what has helped us through some period or another.

Jenn Reno: 55:21

And now it's like I feel so lucky that I found these practices to help with my pain because, because I am that person that's like, okay, I'll I mean, I wasn't this way of meditation, obviously, but before that, anything I'll try, right, Like whether it's acupuncture or different herbs or just whatever, give it to me, or just whatever give it to me. I can help other people who are going through what I am, you know. So, like a lot of my private clients are people with chronic and acute pain and illness and that feels like to help others find relief from something that can feel like it's stealing your life. It's your higher power. Like for years, pain was my higher power. I talked about this on Kristen Birdwell's podcast, that I even did the 12 steps once around, pain being my higher power. And you know, to see people like release it, lose that fear is just like it's the best work. I love my job. I can't believe I get to do this and, you know, sometimes it's the simplest suggestions too.

Jenn Reno: 56:42

I had a girl in my meditation class the other day and she was like, oh my God, I'm spinning out. I really need this. Thank you so much. She kept thanking me before it even started. I'm like no, no, it's here. I'm like I'm glad you're here.

Jenn Reno: 56:53

And then I was like okay, just so you know, you can lay down, you can move around during the practice, like whatever you need to do. And she's like I can. And I said, yeah, this is your time to nourish your body, so do what you need for it. You know like if there's other people in the class, you have to be mindful of noise, but if you need to shift into comfort, do that. And she was like that just changed my life and it's like such a small to me.

Jenn Reno: 57:24

But I didn't know that either, because I have pain, Like I've been squirming around, sitting here, talking to you while I'm teaching. I am like stretching my hip out and moving because I can't sit there. And when I meditate, if I don't make it my own practice and like my teacher, David G, always says, comfort is queen I'm going to focus on my throbbing hip or my lower back pain. I'm not going to pay attention to where I'm supposed to be guided to, and so you know, just being able to offer such small solutions to like change somebody's view on meditation, and how simple it can be, is great. I love it Like it's like-.

Lunden Souza: 58:08

The permission slip. You're like with you telling your story. In that instance where that girl came to you, it was like her permission slip to then share hers, right, and then I think maybe people listening too. It's like you think you go to a meditation class or whatever and you can't move and you just have to sit there and you know and like, then you get move around, do what feels good for your body, like this is for you. It's not about doing it right, it's about doing it and showing up.

Jenn Reno: 58:37

Um, yeah, making that time like okay, if you're going to make the effort to show up here, make it worthwhile.

Lunden Souza: 58:47

Make it what you want it to be.

Jenn Reno: 58:48

Yeah, Don't be like that meditation was awful because I couldn't move. My body was hurting so bad. That was an awful meditation. It's like I don't want that experience for anybody.

Lunden Souza: 59:00

Yeah, yeah. One last thing, because I know there's some. I always tell myself if one person is impacted by this episode, that's what we're doing Like, that's why we're here, because that one person could have been you or me or anyone. And so if somebody's listening that does have chronic pain, what would be like one piece of advice or one thing that you would suggest that they lean into or discover? Would it be meditation? What would that next best step for the person listening? Thinking okay, and where do I start?

Jenn Reno: 59:37

The first, really most important thing is that you are your own best advocate, like if you with all your heart and gut, know something is wrong and feels off, continue fighting for finding an answer and a solution. Um, and if that means bringing somebody with you to support you and doctor's appointments too, which is something I I'd bring my dad as much as I could Always yeah, keep fighting for yourself. Like, use your voice. It's your body, you know it best and you know, through that, finding a doctor that listens to you. And then I really suggest, yes, meditation and listening to guided meditations to start.

Jenn Reno: 1:00:24

I think guided meditations and they can be five minutes long. You know like you got to start somewhere and five minutes can like change your life. And you know, sometimes I just do like the 16 second breath or a box breath right A few times and I'm like, okay, I feel better than I did before that. So you know there's so many great meditation apps out there. Some of them are free. You can type in pain in the search box or whatever you're going through illness, maybe it's loss, you know a different kind of pain and, um, find a meditation or a teacher whose voice really resonates with you. Don't stop after the first one. If you don't like that voice, find somebody else, because there's a teacher for everybody.

Lunden Souza: 1:01:11

Um, if you want to meditate with me that, was going to be my next question how do they meditate with you? What apps?

Jenn Reno: 1:01:30

how do they connect with you? I'm on the unplug meditation app and, um, I have four meditations for pain. I think they're anywhere from like eight to 16 minutes long, so none of them are extremely long. You can lay down in your bed, put pillows everywhere, get as comfortable as you want and, um, yeah, just learn to breathe into your body, you know. Breathe all the way down into your belly, fill it.

Jenn Reno: 1:01:53

Learn to guide your breath, just like I like to imagine my breath is swirling golden light like stardust spinning through my body and I just breathe it into different body parts where I'm hurting, and then I imagine that my exhale is carrying it away, and I do that with, like you know, a thought that I don't like, or like I was having a lot of judgment recently and I didn't like that part of me and it felt really bad and yucky, and so I was really trying to exhale and let go of judgment. You know things that aren't serving us. So connect to your breath. That's all you need really is like the willingness to be quiet for a little bit. Nourish yourself and breathe into wherever your body's calling for it.

Lunden Souza: 1:02:50

Thank you for you, Jenn. I love you so much and this conversation I know has been healing for somebody out there listening. It for sure has been for me. I'll put all the links to how to connect with Jenn in the description. Check out her meditations in the Unplug app. Connect with her everywhere and I'll send you so you can put that in there.

Jenn Reno: 1:03:18

I have a link for 30 free days on the Unplug app and you don't have to put your credit card number in or anything. So you can just try those 30 days and go from there.

Lunden Souza: 1:03:28

Perfect, we need that for sure. Thank you guys for listening and thank you, Jenn, and we'll see you at the next episode.

Jenn Reno: 1:03:37

Thank you.

Lunden Souza: 1:03:45

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Self Love and Sweat, the podcast. If you enjoyed this episode or were inspired by it or something resonated with you, do me a favor and share this episode with a friend, someone that you think might enjoy this episode as well. That's the ultimate compliment and the best way to make this podcast ripple out into the world of others, and also you can leave us a review up to five stars wherever you're listening to the podcast. Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you at the next episode. I appreciate you.